Proposed changes in taxes after 2008 General election:

[capt. jakeg]

I dont know how much truth there can be to any sort of these things a year out from the general election. I'm sure this stuff will change a million times. Looks like more of the internet propoganda to me.
Anyone, even I who isnt an economist knows the best way to pay off a deficit is not through raising tax rates. This slows the entire economy. The best way is leave tax rates the same or reduce rates and stimulate the economy through growth. Through growth, extra tax money is raised without having to raise rates. SIMPLE economics. AND we all know what TWO hands down 100% easiest ways to stimulate the ecomony are right now.... #1 get out of Iraq and remove ourselves from the tremendous financial burden from there...#2 remove our dependence on foreign oil.
All three candidates want to remove our dependence on foreign oil. It would be idiotic and political suicide for any other point of view at the moment. Americans are pissed off about oil right now.
The dems want out of Iraq. Iraq is simply a huge economic drain on our country. We have got to be in pretty sad shape for me to think that a change to socialism has stronger economic appeal than the republican plan. Is saw a thing that estimated we would spend approximately 12 trillion dollars in Iraq by the time all is said and done.
People do not seem to have a grasp over how much money this is. It is HUGE. Heres a perspective of how much a trillion is. Everything in the world contains copper. Every piece of wire, every bit of brass, electric motors, roofs, etc. Copper is everywhere and is in almost every thing. The average american house is constructed using an average of 130# of copper. That is EVERY house in AMERICA. Copper has been mined since the earliest of times and is easily mined and abundant throughout the world. Since the dawn of mankind, there has been approximately 3 trillion pounds of copper mined. 12 TRILLION DOLLARS IN IRAQ.
Here's a little easier to wrap your head around
If you made $100 per second since Jesus walked the earth, you would only have 6.3 trillion dollars. There's been a whole lot of seconds since then.

[Glenn W]

Originally Posted by capt. jakeg

Anyone, even I who isnt an economist knows the best way to pay off a deficit is not through raising tax rates. This slows the entire economy. The best way is leave tax rates the same or reduce rates and stimulate the economy through growth. Through growth, extra tax money is raised without having to raise rates. SIMPLE economics.

Uh, I have to I disagree with you there Jake---
" Trickle Down" theory, and Laffer Supply Side Economics lasted as a ligitimate theory for about 4 to 6 years. With the benifit of historical data, it's hard to agrue that theory prevails over facts and reality.--- simple bookeeping---

[capt. jakeg]

Glenn, I would expect you to disagree there.
I have a hard time believing anything that says we are making ground when the ecomonic signs are showing that we have been nose diving into recession for the past six months.
A better chart for the point you are trying to make would show value of the dollar versus any other world currency or the value or the dollar versus anything for the past 8 years, or try the dollar versus gold. Or you could show a chart of economic indicators such as home foreclosures. The price of a gallon of milk. The price of a gallon of gasoline. Those charts show something else. Of course our GDP is the same. Everyone is too busy working their asses off and not getting anything for it for it to be going down. Unemplyment is only slightly up. That means we are still producing. Although, I would bet if that chart were recent things would be on the downturn as of late.
A chart that has no bearing on the real world right now is nothing more than just that, a chart. You don't need a chart everyday when you go to the store and find that everything costs twice as much and you arent getting paid twice as much. True, our GDP might be holding steady, but that chart doesnt show that everyone in the world can now buy twice as much of our domestic product for half as much because of failed economic policy over the past 5 years. That chart also doesnt show the bomb that has occurred this quarter alone.

Trickle down theory is exactly what this bullshit $600 ESP check in 6 months is all about. If it doesn't work, then why is do our economists push for it so hard every time we get crunched? Evidently it still holds validity today.

You can't take money from people that dont have it. When our economy is as broke as it is, when you tax more, you dont get more. You actually get less. Raising taxes only works when people have money and are making more money. When you raise taxes when people are broke you create a chain reaction of debt and loss, such as what happened in the united states in the 1920's and 1930's.
I'm not trying to sway you in one direction or anyother. Really I dont even know which direction I'm going right now.
If you are gonna point at reality versus theory... you got a long, long ways to go if you are gonna keep flashing charts that try to demonstate that our economy is in a state of improvement during the Bush adminstration. After you stop at the gas station and buy $3.29 a gallon gasoline because of 5 years of constant mideast turmoil, look at the business section in the newspaper when you get home... there's plenty of reality in there.

[capt. jakeg]

One more thing... That
"Data from whitehouse.gov"
I aint sure but that might not be the best place to get your info from. They wouldnot try to screw you over and change the facts at all or anything...

[Glenn W]

Anyone ever try to have a discussion with someone and the other side changes the topic with each response you make??????

Jake, I was simply responding to your Trickle down theory as it relates to taxes--- no more, no less. You clearly stated that you don't have to be an economist to understand that by lowering taxes, the economy will grow by at an exponental rate such that govermental revenues will be greater with lower tax rates- (the term is positive tax revenue elastisity). The facts are the facts, and you were wrong--- it's really quite simple. Sorry Honey.

Now, we can start another discussion about the price of milk, or what real GDP growth has been, but I thought we were talking about your trickle down, supply-side economics theory.

[Persistence]

Compared to all of this, the NY Guy who was banging the hooker for 4K a pop makes more sense

[ElMar2530]

Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table any more.

They already have left the table, where are all the manufacturing jobs?? And they still get rewarded.

Besides, who here makes more than 250K? I know I don't and probably never will in my lifetime, thats just reality.

[capt. jakeg]

Not gonna argue over wrong and right, its retarded. Ive said all I need to.

Persistence Glenn.... 4k is bad. For 4k you can fly to venezuela, fish for a week in some of the finest fishing, stay at a nice resort, eat like a king, get all the as good if not better looking local talent you want, and still have about $1000 in your pocket when you get home. What an idiot...

[Persistence]

Yeah, for sure...he was an idiot to pay for that. I know, I know...we all PAY to some degree on another but good lawd. 4K for a session?

My wife and I have gone on vacation for 8 days (and not scrimped) and did it for under 4K...and I think I probably got more than one "session" out of that as well!

[Cardinal Joe]

I'm sorry i started this thread ? I don't know if I'm coming or going after you two guys ! But ,I do know what $4,000.00 will " BUY " !!!!!!!!!!!!! HA! Cardinal Joe