Is Pakistan Getting a Bum Rap?

[longfisher]

The U.S. foreign policy and security apparatus is all a-twitter over OBL having, apparently, lived a life of luxury in Pakistan for what may have been half a decade essentially right under the noses of the Pakistani's. And, there's a whole lot of finger-pointing, accussations and essentially high-browed, we're better than thou condemnations.

Finding OBL where they found him has been taken as prima facia evidence that the Pakistani ISI and perhaps even the military and the democratically elected government were in on hiding him from us...just to frustrate us?

Well, let's go to the Internet and review U.S. history to see if the U.S. domestic intelligence and law enforcement communities have ever had problems locating a known terrorist within our borders who was a mass murderer and who used explosives to terrorize and kill but there the U.S. authorities weren't complicit in his evading arrest.

Oh, that didn't take long.

It seems there was a terrorist named Eric Robert Rudolf who bombed abortion clinics who was on the lam from February 14, 1998 when he was named a suspect in a bombing until May 31, 2003, or about five years...about the same amount of time that OBL was supposed to have had access to the house in which he was killed.

Here's what Wikipedia says about how he evaded arrest:

"It is thought that Rudolph had the assistance of sympathizers while evading capture. Some in the area were vocal in support of him. Two country music songs were written about him and a locally top-selling T-shirt read: "Run Rudolph Run." The Anti-Defamation League noted that "extremist chatter on the Internet has praised Rudolph as 'a hero' and some followers of hate groups are calling for further acts of violence to be modeled after the bombings he is accused of committing."

Rudolph's family supported him and believed he was innocent of all charges,[9] but found themselves under intense questioning and surveillance."

Sounds like the same set of circumstances to me if you believe the Pakistanis when they say they didn't know a thing about it, but for the fact that the U.S. government wasn't accused of hiding Rudolph. Rudolf killed people with explosives, did so to terrorize, was sought by the U.S. government, successfully hid with the support of his "followers" and did so without the slightest help from the government or the security services.

And, there's this one fugitive on the FBI's most wanted list who has been on the lam for almost 27 years, although he may have fled the country.

Seems to me that it might be best if we examined our own faults before we go around accusing others, huh?

I think it would be great if the Pakistani ambassador to the U.S. brought up the Rudolph case on TV and during one of the blistering, accusation-laced Wolf Blitzer interviews and then followed it up by say,

"With all your own obvious historical faults identical to what you accuse us of why don't you Americans just stuff it."

LF

[NY Bearhunter]

AND ALL OF THAT MEANS WHAT ???

[N2theBlue]

There's a key difference. Rudolph lived in caves/trailers/run down houses in the Appalachian Mountains (wilderness). Osama lived in a large compound with walls with barbed wire on top of them and armed guards just a hop skip and a jump from the capital, and very close to another town. The town residents knew of the compound. You can't tell me the Pakistani government didn't have some idea who was living in the fortified compound right down the road.

[longfisher]

There's a key difference. Rudolph lived in caves/trailers/run down houses in the Appalachian Mountains (wilderness). Osama lived in a large compound with walls with barbed wire on top of them and armed guards just a hop skip and a jump from the capital, and very close to another town. The town residents knew of the compound. You can't tell me the Pakistani government didn't have some idea who was living in the fortified compound right down the road.

Where he lived is a point of disagreement between Rudolph and the FBI. The FBI believes he had help and was sheltered, espeically by his family. Perhaps in an effort to shield those who helped him, Rudolph himself said he lived a caveman's life.

Frankly, I believe the FBI. But that's not the point. The point is that a fugitive can remain free here for years even when the government is hell-bent on catching him. So, why should we not extend the same consideration to Pakistan?

LF

[N2theBlue]

Where he lived is a point of disagreement between Rudolph and the FBI. The FBI believes he had help and was sheltered, espeically by his family. Perhaps in an effort to shield those who helped him, Rudolph himself said he lived a caveman's life.

Frankly, I believe the FBI. But that's not the point. The point is that a fugitive can remain free here for years even when the government is hell-bent on catching him. So, why should we not extend the same consideration to Pakistan?

LF

You still didn't get my point. There's a fundamental difference in not being able to find somebody who is living in caves/small houses (if you've ever been to that part of appalachia you would know that its a lot of OLD homes that have been there for 100;s f years and are small, and there are lots of places to hide) and being clueless about the person living in a large fortified compound a few miles from your capital and military academy.

A more fitting comparison would be trying to say that a terrorist was camped out at the Waco Compound and the US didn't have any idea where he was. Or, if Osama had been found living in a cave in the mountains it would be a more effective analogy. He was not.

[longfisher]

You can't tell me the Pakistani government didn't have some idea who was living in the fortified compound right down the road.

N2, I think this quote is the most indicative of your mindset than anything else found in your posts.

Taken at face value, your statement says your mind is made up. You opinion is rock solid. You'll entertian no other opinions objectively. Neither I nor, presumably, anyone else can tell you different.

So, why bother debating you? It'd be a bit like debating Frank.

LF

[marine4003]

as long as Pakistan is receiving millions of US dollars under the guise of "hunting terrorists" why find the golden goose,as long as there are "credible threats" in the M.E. our "allies" get rich....The US citizens can get caught up in glorifying someone like Rudolph and that bank robber the Eagles sang about,doesn't take much to make them folk hero's, but when "Muslims" slam planes into buildings well no way is that considered cute,LEO's in this country have there hands full dealing with day to day BS,let alone a fugitive who is not considered a day to day threat..like home invaders or car jackers.

[N2theBlue]

N2, I think this quote is the most indicative of your mindset than anything else found in your posts.

Taken at face value, your statement says your mind is made up. You opinion is rock solid. You'll entertian no other opinions objectively. Neither I nor, presumably, anyone else can tell you different.

So, why bother debating you? It'd be a bit like debating Frank.

LF

You could debate me. I'm always open to debate. But you'd have to come up with something better than Eric Rudolph because the situations are entirely different. No similarities at all.

[Big Fish Billy]

Or were we paying 20 billion to Pakistan to keep him in the baitbox, alive, so we can keep the "peoples" interest elsewhere, while we get torqued at home here from every different angle, or for a timely political boost.....that card played a bit too early....methinks.....

[longfisher]

No similarities at all.

That statement is obviously untrue.

LF