THE OBAMA SCALE....decline continues !!!

[hubris 1]

That may have have been the most disrespectful, contempt for our entire legislative and Excutive institutions that I have ever heard of in the US.----- right up there with Tiwanise legislature maylay.
I don't care what side of the fence you are on in politics--- that Congressman's outburst was a slap in the face to the dignity of our governement.
---- back to our regular programming----

Englands parliament yells at each other dont they? I think they get elected to represent us. I have never seen so much resistance to an idea as I have seen with this bill or president. I dont think they hear the American people. Sometimes you have to step out of line and yell to get their attention.
I think middle america is getting tired of the rich telling the middle to help the poor everytime at their expense. Its gotten old. Im sure they yelled at nixon too. I would have done it. Both Nixon, and obama. I hope he fails!

[canyongear]

What do you think of Rep. Joe Wilson's decision to shout out 'You lie!' during the president's speech?


Are illegal aliens covered in the healthcare plan or not?

He either lied or he didn't, pretty frickin simple.

[longfisher]

At least, I don't have a particular problem with Rep. Wilson's outburst.

Outbursts are disruptive, for sure. If I have a beef about them it's that they disturb my concentration while I try to understand what's being said. But breaches of decorum are still free speech. And, the Congressman, as a citizen, is rightful to engage in free speech.

I sure wish someone would have openly called Bush a liar and a war criminal, as he most assuredly is, during an session of Congress, at the U.N. or in his televised speaches at the military bases (where he always seemed to go for his speeches). He and Cheney were the absolutely most bald faced liars I've seen in the POTUS and VPOTUS in my lifetime.

However, I'm unsure if the televised juxtaposition between a raucous GOP and a cool and reserved President was a good visual for the GOP. That speech was nationally televised, you know. With only about 25% of the nation currently solidly in the GOP camp and with independents watching and ever-disdainful of pettiness, I'll bet it goes against the GOP in the long-run.

Anyway, it was positive for me to hear Rep. Wilson focus on whether or not the health care bill would allow the treatment of illegal aliens, "cover" them as Obama said. That's because it spurred me to look into the matter.

Indeed, today we "cover" illegal aliens. Absolutely anyone can go to a hospital ER and get treatment or admittance to the hospital. Neither citizenship nor permanent residency nor even insurabiliy is a bar to the ER. Indeed, these questions are simply not asked until the end of the process. I know, I've been there.

I believe there's a law that forbids health providers from inquiring of citizenship status. But I couldn't find it with a google search. Many health insurers ask about citizenship status or at least residency status when they offer insurance.

Even if the new bill were to ban treatment of illegal aliens it would be ineffective as this other law prevents the healthcare providers from inquiring of citizenship status. So, Rep. Wilson, although a crude, disruptive boor, had a point.

Now, was it smart for Wilson and is it smart for the GOP to harp on this issue. Well, no. At least, not politically smart. They're already the party of war, torture, war crimes, fiscal irresponsibility, fear and hatemongering and racism (I'm thinking of you, Mike). And, their base is largely now restricted largely to mostly southern angry white men and their wives who are over 45 years old. Not exactly a demographic that's going to give them many electoral victories.

So, should they drive the Hispanics who are the single largest and fastest growing demographic in America to the Democrats? Well, they done dumber things, I suppose.

Before I go, I'll address the point that will invariably come up with Mike on the board. Mike's a racist and a bigot, for sure. And, he'll certainly want to accuse me of favoring illegal aliens in the country. But he'd be as wrong about that as he is about most other things.

I think illegal is illegal. If it's illegal to come to the U.S. undocumented then they shouldn't be here. Moreover, no matter how hard it might be to eject them they should be ejected, regardless of the party. And, the borders should be controled, period, to my way of thinking, including the Canadian border. It's a matter of national security.

That illegal is illegal brings me back to Bush. He and Cheney and the CIA and contractors who tortured people, including American citizens, should also be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? Lawbreakers should be held accountable.

LongFisher

[canyongear]

From States News Service ('Facts are Stubborn Things: Implications of HR 3200,' 8/25/09)...
ObamaCare:

1. Does Not Require Proof of Citizenship to Obtain Health Services: While Section 246 (page 143) of the bill expressly prohibits illegal aliens from receiving government-run healthcare, the bill does not include a specific requirement that a person prove his or her citizenship in order to obtain affordability credits, which means that illegal aliens could obtain coverage.
Section 152 states that "all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services". This provision has the potential to include illegal immigrants because it may interpret "personal characteristics" to include legal status (Pages 50-51, 143).
2. Requires That If One Family Member Is Covered, All Members Covered: Another provision states that if one member of a family is afforded coverage all members would have coverage, thereby creating another loophole to give taxpayer-subsidized health care to illegal aliens. If a child of illegal aliens is born in the United States, then the entire family becomes eligible for coverage (Page 133).
3. Requires Free Translation Services: Sections 1222 of the bill will provide free translation services and interpreters to those who are not proficient in English. Section 1728 amends SCHIP to provide translation services to children of families and other individuals for whom English is not the primary language (Pages 408-418 and 782).

Meanwhile, 83% of Americans want citizenship verification requirements for any new health care legislation...but not Democrats.

Also, if ObamaCare were not a redistribution scam intended to cover 15 million new potential Democrat voters at everyone else's expense, why would Democrats have even bothered to vote down Rep. Nathan Deal's amendment to prohibit ObamaCare from covering illegal immigrants? If Obama's feigned outrage at this "pure misinformation" were the least bit sincere, Democrats would have had no reason to reject this measure at all, as it would have merely been redundant and changed nothing.
Actions speak louder than words.

[hubris 1]

What do you think of Rep. Joe Wilson's decision to shout out 'You lie!' during the president's speech?


Are illegal aliens covered in the healthcare plan or not?

He either lied or he didn't, pretty frickin simple.

The same way Clinton lied. Its open for interpetation. They need to define "illegal aliens" because they plan on making all of them legal plus, federal law prohibits blocking healthcare to illegals. So its really a play with words. They will be covered. Too many politicians spend their energy "Harvard Talking" to the American public. If health care needs to be fixed, having the gov't take it over isnt the solution. Fix the broken parts. I hope obama FAILS.

[Ace1st]

That may have have been the most disrespectful, contempt for our entire legislative and Excutive institutions that I have ever heard of in the US.----- right up there with Tiwanise legislature maylay.
I don't care what side of the fence you are on in politics--- that Congressman's outburst was a slap in the face to the dignity of our governement.
---- back to our regular programming----

Aint it just like a SOUTH CAROLINIAN to say it like it is! I agree, maybe he was wrong to shout it out at such a time, but it is what it is. Why sugar coat it?

SC boys have a habit of putting up or shuttin up though, i'll give um that! I believe it was Charleston SC battery that had enough balls to quit the BS and take it to the next level. Just my REBEL 2 cents worth!

All politics are smoke and mirrors, say one thing do another. So what if the Senator said it, if its a LIE, its a LIE! what does it matter the forum that it was said in? Dignity in our Government? Heres a president that associates with criminals, terrorist and racist. The good people of America put him in office and you call it a slap in the face to the dignity of our government because the guy called it like he seen it? Talk about an institution that has turned its back on dignity, common sense and trust in the first place. I wish that DIGNITY actually meant something to our govt institution.

[canyongear]

The same way Clinton lied. Its open for interpetation. They need to define "illegal aliens" because they plan on making all of them legal plus, federal law prohibits blocking healthcare to illegals. So its really a play with words. They will be covered. Too many politicians spend their energy "Harvard Talking" to the American public. If health care needs to be fixed, having the gov't take it over isnt the solution. Fix the broken parts. I hope obama FAILS.

There is a definition of "illegal aliens":

IRS:

Alien
An individual who is not a U.S. citizen or U.S. national.

Illegal Alien
Also known as an "Undocumented Alien," is an alien who has entered the United States illegally and is deportable if apprehended, or an alien who entered the United States legally but who has fallen "out of status" and is deportable.

An undocumented or "illegal alien" is an alien who entered the United States illegally without the proper authorization and documents, or is an alien who once entered the United States legally and has since violated the terms of the status in which he entered the United States or has overstayed the time limits of his original status.

Immigrant
An alien who has been granted the right by the USCIS to reside permanently in the United States and to work without restrictions in the United States. Also known as a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR). All immigrants are eventually issued a "green card" (USCIS Form I-551), which is the evidence of the alien’s LPR status. LPR’s who are awaiting the issuance of their green cards may bear an I-551 stamp in their foreign passports.

Since we are taxpayers, as far as im concerned this is the definition of "illegal aliens".

So, what's the problem here? An illegal show's up at an emergency room, No Green Card, No Visa, No Documentation.

Where's the INS, if they are deportable "Illegal Aliens", under the definition? See you in 3 years, get your paperwork in order and when you can push #1 for english on the phone.

[Hatterized]

well....Joe is my hero......i applaud the man.....if the President was NOT creating all the dissention perhaps more politicians would be on common ground....and outburst such as this would not take place.....

and the look on Pelosi's (another LIAR) face.....PRICELESS.....she tries to maintain an angelic image...well i think she is really the devil with a blue dress on...

[canyongear]

What's disturbing in more ways than one is making healthcare mandatory by U.S. Govt. and enforced by the IRS.

The last time someone told me I had to do something or else, I knew it came with vaseline.

Heck, why not make the following mandatory too:

Life Insurance: 10% of death proceeds go into the Healthcare Black Hole Fund.

Mortagage Insurance: 10% of all premiums go into the FNMA/FHLMC bailout hole.

Auto Insurance: 10% of all auto policy premiums go into the GM/Chrysler/Union black hole.

and so on...

Somehow, the cart is before the horse. Therefore, it is entirely a POLITICAL agenda.

Im pretty sure people would rather have JOBS and pay for Healthcare as it is than be told you have to have healthcare insurance with NO JOB or 3 mindless JOBS that you had to take to replace the good one you lost.

JOBS vs HEALTHCARE ahh..that isn't a hard choice ask anyone that question.

Funding for job creation could start with the "Pee in the cup, for a welfare check program". That ought to fund the start up costs for new JOB creation studies, lost on the Healthcare initiative.

This is truely a Louis Black comedy sketch in the making.

[longfisher]

Canyongear,

Both auto and homeowners insurance (if you have a mortgage) are already mandatory in Texas.

Frankly, I don't see the beef about making health insurance mandatory especially when you realize that you're already paying more than a grand each year to subsidize the health care of those who don't get it. Some estimates are as high as $1,700 a year. Folks without it really are freeloading.

I'm for saving that money for my own family.

Oh, I got a chuckle out of the vaseline line. Thanks.


LongFisher