Manditory Service,

[seapower]

Here's my way out of the whole stinkin mess we are in now, simple as it may be. Every able bodied male when they either graduate or drop out of school owes us all 4 years in Uncle Sam's Service. I ain't talkin about the peace corps either. If you're not phyically or mentally able, we'll make you a "field artillery officer", yep that one's for you LongFisher. No one has a vested interest of the way this Country is headed, now it's a "somebody else will do it" mentality. Teach them discipline, a trade (there's piles of them in the military), theres no excuse for being late (never mind not showing up for work), learn to "earn" what you have (priviledges), team work, a price to be paid for your actions, etc......... From my own point of view, when it comes to hiring someone, a VET (honorable discharged of course) will alway's get first crack. Simply because he/she has learned all of the above. Life isn't and never will be fair. The key is separating yourself from the rest of the pack. I have used what I learned in the Service everyday of my life. Was it all great, fun and games? Well honestly no, but I learned so much more about people in general there than I would ever learn in any college. But the biggest education I got was about ME. I learned that good enough, wasn't. I had pride in my self and my crew's. The biggest perk is that I owe no swingin' d- -k anything, I paid my dues. I wasn't made to enlist, I did it out of respect of the Country I live in. Would I die for the same Counrty, you bet your sweet *** I would! Plus I got to "play" with a bunch of cool stuff that the "civilian" world will never see.
Yep it's a pretty simple solution in my mind, but hey I'm a simple minded kinda guy. By the way, in case you missed the point EVERY man would pull his time. No priviledged characters. There would be such a huge amount of "cream" floating back to the top, we couldn't be touched. Frank

[marine4003]

not a bad idea,side benefits include: less obesity,less chance of "policing"wars,stronger economy,better future for our country,less me-me-me attitude.
run for office Frank.

[billschwabe]

What, and not the girls too like Israel?
Let's get the Lemon scandal or another going to attract enough people to get the write-in;
Frank for Pres!

[longfisher]

Frank,

I hear that often enough to have wondered what the true motivation of that line of thought is. But before I get to that please agree that with the absolutely astoundingly large number of American kids born each year who then pass through military age that we'd never be able to afford to put them all in uniform and a force that large would be absolutely so expensive that it'd cost us the economy, again.

Now, to why and where that line of thought is common, what's its origin and why is it wrong. It's most common among Conservatives, a population in which my political sentiments lie whether you believe that or not. I have enough liberal friends to know it's not common in those circles. Indeed, having fielty to the military and beliveing that it's a positive force in society is about a contrary to liberal thought as I can imagine.

So, why do Conservatives tend to believe that "a stint" in the military would clean up folks' attitudes about being good citizens. Well, they believe that because the military experience is authoritarian in the extreme and many conservatives, including me, are rather authoritarian at core. This authoritarianism engenders two self-supporting notions; 1) those who resist or reject authoritarianism are wrong and 2) authoritianism is the precise tonic to solve that problem. Neither of these are correct. They're merely outgrowths of ideology of authoritarianism.

Please note that authoritarian tendancies are never examined in a fair and objective context by died in the wool authoritarians to see if the ideology is sound. It's simply accepted a dogma.

Now to why the notion is wrong that a stint in the military will clean up someone's attitude, or to put it more commonly that military service will "square away" somoene. The utter raw truth is that the military is not what its propoganda machine makes it out to be. Military service is as utterly anti-democratic as it is brutal, low-brow, anti-intellectual, demeaning of self and of others, embued with nationalism, jingoism and American exceptionalism to the point that survivors can't express deserved empathy with the plight of others, particularly foreigners, and so entirely mind-bending in its antisocial pretexts that it takes a military person decades to finally get his mind straight again (it took me 20 years) and be a good citizen.

CONTEMPORARY military service has the potential to utterly corrupt the democratic citizen. It's only real purpose is to increase and glorify authoritarinism. And, that appeals to many in this country who are dogmatic conservatives.

Please note the difference between how our military men and women were trained and thought of before WWII. They were considered reluctant combatants and they were referred to a "citizen soldiers". What are they called almost uniformly now? Well, warriors, of course. I despise that term because it encourages our military men and women to think of themselves outside of the context of their citizenship and produces, well, barbarous behavior. Barbarous behavior returns to us as "blow back".

Universal justice.

LF

[longfisher]

Frank,

Not to be picky, but it's mandatory from the word mandate.

LF

[seapower]

Maybe I need to learn which button is for "spell check". Pretty plain to (or is it plane?) see that I speak and spell from my own head. I wouldn't know how to "cut and paste" if my lfe depended on it. I think for me and me alone.
As for your defense of the status quo, I call BS. Not because of what I've read, heard or been trained to say. I seem to remember seeing a bunch of give a sh-t goof ball's getting off the bus at the gate in Boot Camp. Those same dreg's of society came out to be much different after a few weeks of "mandatory" sqaring away. Of course I was already a pretty good egg before I went in, because my father was a 23 year lifer himself. No sparing the rod and spoiling the child, know what I saying? My thought is simply this, being that we are already paying "them" to do nothing, how about WE get a little return on our investment? Pretty simple concept in my mind. I can take you down the same streets and show you the same people who have nothing else to do but sit on the porch of the house that I'm paying for. Never mind the food, medical and other goodie's I'm paying for as well. Oh wait, they aren't always sitting on the porch, after all there is the daily walk to the corner store to buy lottery ticket's. What a waste of my money and a waste of life. Of course that's just my opinion. Frank

[longfisher]

Maybe I need to learn which button is for "spell check". Pretty plain to (or is it plane?) see that I speak and spell from my own head. I wouldn't know how to "cut and paste" if my lfe depended on it. I think for me and me alone.
As for your defense of the status quo, I call BS. Not because of what I've read, heard or been trained to say. I seem to remember seeing a bunch of give a sh-t goof ball's getting off the bus at the gate in Boot Camp. Those same dreg's of society came out to be much different after a few weeks of "mandatory" sqaring away. Of course I was already a pretty good egg before I went in, because my father was a 23 year lifer himself. No sparing the rod and spoiling the child, know what I saying? My thought is simply this, being that we are already paying "them" to do nothing, how about WE get a little return on our investment? Pretty simple concept in my mind. I can take you down the same streets and show you the same people who have nothing else to do but sit on the porch of the house that I'm paying for. Never mind the food, medical and other goodie's I'm paying for as well. Oh wait, they aren't always sitting on the porch, after all there is the daily walk to the corner store to buy lottery ticket's. What a waste of my money and a waste of life. Of course that's just my opinion. Frank

...what I said about the military being utterly corrupting above needs to be modified if we're talking about loafers. It's utterly reinforcing for them. They come in with an attitude and leave with criminal skills reinforced by training in arms and explosives.

Somehow, Frank, I'm liking your idea less and less with each post.

LF

[seapower]

Can't imagine you not seein' it my way. Pick it apart if you like, make it a racial thing, that's just what you do. Doesn't change the facts, we have a "give me" generation. You won't pull me into a "racial" debate, just ain't gonna happen. Nice try though! Got anything else? Frank