Liberal moonbat speaks out

[Gringo]

Everybody talks about the Obama administration, but nobody does anything about it.

[SKULL & BONES]

Welcome

...to the machine.

[Glenn W]

Glenn you are correct in giving bi partisan blame but you absolutely cannot deny that the Obama stimulus plan is all about funding the long term wish list of the Demacrat party and has very little in actual stimulis for our economy. And you also understand the long term disaster that looms as our currency weakens don't you?

As far as the auto bailouts it's obvious that continued union support of the party is far more important to The Obama than actually doing right by the American People. The administration and the Dem Party understand that they have compleat control and that the opposition party (Pubs) behaved as week sisters even when they were in power.


Then there is the green sham, but that's a whole nuther.

Bert

Bert,
There is no denying the fact the ARRA was like a kid's Christmas wish list come true. As I understand and recall the way things went down during the days of getting the Act pushed through, it was a free for all for every Congressman and Senator (whith any clout at all) to make sure they got something that they wanted in the bill--- Repubs and Dems a like. This was a major flaw with the enitire package, and that flaw was": it doesn't matter where the money is spent as long as funds are injected into the Domestic economy. The problem with this logic is that billions of $ funds are being spent on inefficient projects that are nothing more than a waste of money AND will not effectively "jump start" our economy. I will admit the the majority of the absolute worst projects and appropriations were pet projects of various individual Democrats.

I am well aware of the implications of what this unproductive money supply will have on inflation, interest rates and our exchange rate--- we can only hope (perhaps unrealistically) that economic growth in the next 3-5 years is spectacular and that we can find a way to significantly reduce defense and certain entitlement program spending--- I might win the lottery too.

The ARRA (Stimulus Act) was in my view an example of Congress at its worst. The theory and intention may have been good (or at least needed), but when the self interests of individual Congressmen jockyed for power and pet projects we see a result that may have little long term benefit---- at the very least will cost us more later.
As far as the Administration's "motive" to propose UAW ownership--- I am not going to speculate. However, it is far fetched to assume a direct motive to retain Union support for the party. I'm pretty sure the Democratic Party has the UAW pretty well locked up considering the alternative for support. It would appear that a more realistic motive was one more sincere in nature (even if we disagree).--- that being a way to prevent the unemplyment of a very important part of our labor force and the cost to our economy with these people out of work.
Not sure what the Green Sham is.
All in all, it is fair to say our government has acted in great haste. I try to recognise that time was of the essence, but ridiculous decision making from our elected officials is no excuse in times of being under pressure---- hell that's their job to figure out the most efficient way to run our government and ensure the welfare of our people--- this is true when things are easy (like during the CLinton Administration) and when decision making is tough (like now).

[seapower]

Look back a couple of page's. I asked what you guy's thought the answer (a good answer) may be. I'm just curious what "thinking" guys like yourself may have as an answer. I'm not trying to be coy or a "wise guy" here. I not much when it comes to thinking, I "re-act" pretty well, but that generally just lead's to more trouble. There's soooo much crap out there that need's fixing, I wouldn't know where to start myself. I do believe that 100% strong leadership is needed, the kind we WILL NOT get from congress I'm afraid. Frank

[RWW]

Looking back, the American people should have let congress debate, and add in all the pork/pet projects they wanted at a cap of 1 trillion, then thats it no more adding to it. Then the American people should have demanded that for the next 20 weeks only 50 billion would be allowed to be approved per week. In that one week period there would be five days for every member that added a piece (10 billion a day) to stand up on record and explain what it is for, where it is for, and how many jobs it would create. At the end of the day there would be ten votes, one vote per billion, if not approved it can not be voted on again. On each Saturday (yes make them work every Saturday for 20 weeks) the weeks worth of debates and votes gets voted into law.
There was no accountability by either side and the fact that they can ear mark and add pet projects but not have to explain them or even be recognized for it is ridiculous and wrong. Oh well it is a done deal...well sorta.

The thing is they rushed it through but they have spent only 25 to 40% depending what you read. A good portion funds FY10 and FY11.
So what to do? I think first of all everyone needs to say no loud and clear to universal health care. I am not going to argue if it is needed or not, if it will work or not, the bottom line is our economy simply can not afford it, period end of story! The administration knows damn well if it doesn't pass this year that no congressman up for election in 2010 will risk their seat backing it. I also believe the administration knows that there is very good chance there will be a large power shift after the 2010 election.
Second, American people need to elect fiscal conservatives into office and yes there are fiscal conservatives on both sides. And money left gets re-examined and voted on again.

All bank and auto bailout money is made into stock. Next eliminate the capital gains tax for 5 years. The market will sky rocket as business owners will invest in their business, the rich will spend which creates jobs, and profits begin again. Government held stocks are sold back into the market where ownership belongs. The revenue from the sold stocks is used to pay off the debt. Hell Bank of America stock, which received 45 billion of bailout money, is trading for almost 14 dollars a share up from a low of almost 3 dollars in March. If that 45 billion was exchanged for 3 dollar shares that would be 15 billion shares. Selling it back to the private sector today would give the fed a gross return of 210 billion. Even AIG is up from its 52 week low... thats a good start

[seapower]

You pretty well summed it up in the 4th sentence of your 1st paragraph. Have them (congressman, senator, whoever) "stand up on record and explain what it is for, where it is for, and how many job's it would create". That should be the way it is done for EVERY day of business. That's the whole deal right there. That's what's missing!!!!! Don't we have to answer to our bosses???? THEY ARE NOT SELF EMPLOYED !!!!!!!
As Marine posted WE elect them, they are supposed to answer to us , the American Public. Stuff get's stashed into important bill's and then get's approved pretty well with no one knowing it (us the public). I don't remember the term that is used for this but know it happen's regularly. Jesse Helm's did that same sort of thing for me personaly with a boat I owned year's ago that needed to be "documented". It was explained to me that it happened all the time, it's how "thing's got done" in DC. Frank

[Bert Rodgers]

Glenn the Green Sham encompases the the move to put every one of us under the enormous thumb of an ever shrinking oligarchy in the name of climate change reduction.

Bert

[Glenn W]

Well, I typed a long reply to Frank's questions yesterday and they vanished somewhere in the typing process.--- short version now--
The theme of this thread was simply that the U.S. has acted against our system's rules and laws to achieve a goal for an individual project--- I have a big problem with that.
As to the global economic problems we are facing I do think the Administration is doing some things right (at least in spirit). First, it has put it's foot down to GM (and to a lesser degree Chrysler) that if taxpayer funds are going to save the Company, then major changes must take place in which the Company's management has been unable to do---- namely compete in the market place by providing a product that is cost efeective--- GM has been the mother of inefficiency for decades and the world market will not permit this anymore. These competiitive inefficiences are like a cancer throughout the GM organization--- current and legacy labor costs, distribution costs, product development, and product offerings to name a few. U.S. manufacturesw no longer have a technological advantage in the manufacturing process to make up for much higher labor costs, consumers have voted on the products they want yet Domestic manufactures continue to ignore the what the market demands and continue with piss poor product lines (particularly cars)--- On the other hand the Japs and Koreans take the opposite view--- which one seems to be working?
All this said, I think the Government should take credit for taking a firm stance in providing salvation funds with significant strings attached and managing the risk as practical as possible----- but just play within our legal system's rules.
On a global economic policy perspective, this ridiculous spending for both Guns and Butter has got to decrease. During the Regan era when government spending went through the roof, our economy was able defer these cost to future periods because of the then current robust economic growth ( notice I said defer, not negate), such is not the case now with the world's economy.

[seapower]

It's our money that is being given (lent) to these companie's, right. When poll's are taken there is a vast, vast majority of us that think that these corporate giant's CEO's pay ought to have a cap put on it. But the Government, Administration, President won't agree to do even that. If I'm going to bail you out, don't you think that concession's should be made, from the top down???? Maybe it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans in the final analysis, but the arrogance to keep wanting more (by the elite) just grind's real hard against me.
I can't help but think that if I was a CEO of one of these companie's, I would be more than willing to take a pay cut or even a year without pay to help keep thing's afloat. When we are talking about million's of dollar's a year in pay and benifit's, how many year's does it take until you have enough. The biggest thing in my eye's for a BOSS to be is a leader, how better to lead a troubled company??? It's time to quit thinking about just "ME". This is an "US" problem. Probably why I'd never make it as a big shot CEO. Frank

[Reel Fanatic]

Glenn-

The fiasco with GM and Chrysler have been completely mishandled. Starting with GW who only helped bail them out in hopes of helping McCain get elected (we know how much good that did). These two companies should have been allowed to go through the bankruptcy process last year. A lot of money would have been saved and there would be some sort of recovery plan in place by now.

I sincerely think that Obama's ONLY incentive in doing what he is doing now is to create two entities that the unions and the federal government can completely manipulate regardless of financial strength/ stability in the future.

Personally, I believe that GM won't be profitable again as long as our government is involved propping it up.