Last Combat Brigade Leaves Iraq

[marine4003]

Frank,
you hit it right on the head..LF criticize others for his own faults, chastises others for being "religious", claims everyone here is a fear filled rebublican..i wonder..why does he keep coming back..surely were beneath him..i walk to a certain street corner..and every time i do so i get punched in the face..guess what..i take a different route..not LF..he keeps coming back to taunt..to bicker..and to preach..Classic sign of someone who has no friends..no life..only the fantasy world he creates for himself here at SF..so sad,so pathetic.

[longfisher]

The Iraq Legacy: Tell It Like It Is
by Medea Benjamin

With the withdrawal of U.S. combat troops from Iraq, the administration, the military and the media are trying to put a positive spin on this grim chapter of U.S. history. It would certainly give some comfort to the grieving families of the over 4,400 soldiers killed in Iraq if their sacrifices had left Iraq a better place or made America safer. But the bitter truth is that the U.S. intervention has been an utter disaster for both Iraq and the United States.

First let's acknowledge that we should have never attacked Iraq to begin with. Iraq had no connection with our 9/11 attackers, had no weapons of mass destruction and represented no threat to the United States. We were pushed into this war on the basis of lies and no one--not George Bush, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, Karl Rove, Donald Rumsfeld-has been held accountable. The "think tanks," journalists and pundits who perpetuated the lies have not been fired. Most of them can be found today cheerleading for the war in Afghanistan.

It's true that Iraqis suffered under the brutal rule of Saddam Hussein but his overthrow did not lead to a better life for Iraqis. "I am not a political person, but I know that under Saddam Hussein, we had electricity, clean drinking water, a healthcare system that was the envy of the Arab world and free education through college," Iraqi pharmacist Dr. Entisar Al-Arabi told me. "I have five children and every time I had a baby, I was entitled to a year of paid maternity leave. I owned a pharmacy and I could close up shop as late as I chose because the streets were safe. Today there is no security and Iraqis have terrible shortages of everything--electricity, food, water, medicines, even gasoline. Most of the educated people have fled the country, and those who remain look back longingly to the days of Saddam Hussein."

Dr. Al-Arabi has joined the ranks of the nearly four million Iraqi refugees, many of whom are now living in increasingly desperate circumstances in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and around the world. Undocumented, most are not allowed to work and are forced to take extremely low paying, illegal jobs or rely on the UN and charities to survive. The United Nations refugee agency (UNHCR) has reported a disturbing spike in the sex trafficking of Iraqi women.

The Iraq war has left a terrible toll on our troops. Over 4,400 have been killed and tens of thousands severely injured. More than one in four U.S. troops have come home from the Iraq war with health problems that require medical or mental health treatment. "PTSD rates have skyrocketed and in 2009, a record number of 245 soldiers committed suicide," said Geoff Millard, chair of the board of Iraq Veterans Against the War. "If vets coming home from Iraq don't get treated, we will see a rise in homelessness, drug abuse, alcoholism and domestic violence."

It has also drained our treasury and contributed to the present financial crisis. As of August 2010, U.S. taxpayers have spent over $750 billion on the Iraq war. Counting the cost of lifetime care for wounded vets and the interest payments on the money we borrowed to pay for this war, the real cost will be in the trillions. This money could have been used to invest in clean, green jobs, or to rebuild our nation's schools, healthcare and infrastructure-ensuring real security for Americans.

In addition to harming our troops and economy, the war has deeply tarnished our reputation. The US policy of torture, extraordinary rendition, indefinite detention, violent and deadly raids on civilian homes, gunning down innocent civilians in the streets and absence of habeas corpus has fueled the fires of hatred and extremism toward Americans. The very presence of our troops in Iraq and other Muslim nations has become a recruiting tool.

And let's not forget that our presence in Iraq is far from over. There will still be 50,000 troops left behind, some 75,000 private contractors, five huge "enduring bases" and an embassy the size of Vatican City. As Major General Stephen Lanza, the US military spokesman in Iraq, told the New York Times: "In practical terms, nothing will change".

So let us mark this moment with a deep sense of shame for the suffering we have brought to Iraqis and American military families, and a deep sense of shame that our democracy has been unable to hold accountable those responsible for this debacle.

[longfisher]

This is my last post on this subject. What makes you so much more special than anyone else? Not a jab, just curious. Anyone that's served and done "hard time" feel's pretty much the same. It comes with age, the fact that we look back and wonder if we made the right call. It's just part of living. You have to at some point, just learn to live with yourself. You have to be able to ask yourself, what choice's did I have? Most do the best they can with the situation at hand. So the question is where do I go from here? If you find the peace you want from reading book's and dredging up stuff you had no control over, then keep re-hashing it. There's no need in trying to insult Kapoc or other's for doing what they feel and know is right according to them. You have discredited yourself so much here, that your word's mean nothing. As I have said before, have a good life. Frank

I've come here to both vent and to persuade. The first is gratuitous. The second a crusade and journey I can't abandon because there's so much truth to it, despite the regular kinship I feel to Cassandra (read more and you'll know what I mean by that).

Venting and persuading. I've done a lot more of the latter than you'll ever know because you don't get my PMs.

LongFisher

[marine4003]

The Iraq Legacy: Tell It Like It Is
by Medea Benjamin

With the withdrawal of U.S. combat troops from Iraq, the administration, the military and the media are trying to put a positive spin on this grim chapter of U.S. history. It would certainly give some comfort to the grieving families of the over 4,400 soldiers killed in Iraq if their sacrifices had left Iraq a better place or made America safer. But the bitter truth is that the U.S. intervention has been an utter disaster for both Iraq and the United States.

First let's acknowledge that we should have never attacked Iraq to begin with. Iraq had no connection with our 9/11 attackers, had no weapons of mass destruction and represented no threat to the United States. We were pushed into this war on the basis of lies and no one--not George Bush, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, Karl Rove, Donald Rumsfeld-has been held accountable. The "think tanks," journalists and pundits who perpetuated the lies have not been fired. Most of them can be found today cheerleading for the war in Afghanistan.

It's true that Iraqis suffered under the brutal rule of Saddam Hussein but his overthrow did not lead to a better life for Iraqis. "I am not a political person, but I know that under Saddam Hussein, we had electricity, clean drinking water, a healthcare system that was the envy of the Arab world and free education through college," Iraqi pharmacist Dr. Entisar Al-Arabi told me. "I have five children and every time I had a baby, I was entitled to a year of paid maternity leave. I owned a pharmacy and I could close up shop as late as I chose because the streets were safe. Today there is no security and Iraqis have terrible shortages of everything--electricity, food, water, medicines, even gasoline. Most of the educated people have fled the country, and those who remain look back longingly to the days of Saddam Hussein."

Dr. Al-Arabi has joined the ranks of the nearly four million Iraqi refugees, many of whom are now living in increasingly desperate circumstances in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and around the world. Undocumented, most are not allowed to work and are forced to take extremely low paying, illegal jobs or rely on the UN and charities to survive. The United Nations refugee agency (UNHCR) has reported a disturbing spike in the sex trafficking of Iraqi women.

The Iraq war has left a terrible toll on our troops. Over 4,400 have been killed and tens of thousands severely injured. More than one in four U.S. troops have come home from the Iraq war with health problems that require medical or mental health treatment. "PTSD rates have skyrocketed and in 2009, a record number of 245 soldiers committed suicide," said Geoff Millard, chair of the board of Iraq Veterans Against the War. "If vets coming home from Iraq don't get treated, we will see a rise in homelessness, drug abuse, alcoholism and domestic violence."

It has also drained our treasury and contributed to the present financial crisis. As of August 2010, U.S. taxpayers have spent over $750 billion on the Iraq war. Counting the cost of lifetime care for wounded vets and the interest payments on the money we borrowed to pay for this war, the real cost will be in the trillions. This money could have been used to invest in clean, green jobs, or to rebuild our nation's schools, healthcare and infrastructure-ensuring real security for Americans.

In addition to harming our troops and economy, the war has deeply tarnished our reputation. The US policy of torture, extraordinary rendition, indefinite detention, violent and deadly raids on civilian homes, gunning down innocent civilians in the streets and absence of habeas corpus has fueled the fires of hatred and extremism toward Americans. The very presence of our troops in Iraq and other Muslim nations has become a recruiting tool.

And let's not forget that our presence in Iraq is far from over. There will still be 50,000 troops left behind, some 75,000 private contractors, five huge "enduring bases" and an embassy the size of Vatican City. As Major General Stephen Lanza, the US military spokesman in Iraq, told the New York Times: "In practical terms, nothing will change".

So let us mark this moment with a deep sense of shame for the suffering we have brought to Iraqis and American military families, and a deep sense of shame that our democracy has been unable to hold accountable those responsible for this debacle.

Code Pink..really, now THERES a great organization..idiot

[Reefraft]

Lf Have you been check for PTSD. Maybe you should?

[longfisher]

...I think the service changed me irretrievably. If you want to call it PTSD, that's cool with me. On return, I didn't fit in anywhere and none of my fellow Marines did either. There was just too much crap put in our heads from the Corps.

Ask anyone in the Corps and he'll tell you that in a short 80 days they can take a humble, polite, caring, Christian boy and turn him into a monster with a switch installed in his brain that can be thrown to close the "kill" circuit with just a few common events and by then all to common and familiar stimuli.

It's like training a dog to bite. He bites on impulse afterwards without a single thought about it.

It's what they do to you in the service. No one's immune. No one can avoid that switch being inserted. No one can remove it later...ever.

When I got back, no one I'd known could believe how I'd changed and how hair-trigger my temper was...about everything and anything. Telling, huh?

Some heros, huh? Monsters, really. Almost incapable of acting responsibly in society anymore. And, we're going to see quite a bunch of them coming home soon, quite soon.

So, if you love your kids do a couple of things so that they won't have to experience what I and thousands more experienced.

Keep them home and out of the military no matter what. Vote against warmongers and fearmongers no matter the party. Be ferocious with everyone you ever meet who in the presence of your kids suggests it's honorable to join the service and serve. It's not. It's basically murder. And, they don't need it on their heads the rest of their lives.

It changes you forever and not for the better. Those on this board who were combat arms, but particularly infantry, know precisely what I'm talking about.

LongFisher

[Reefraft]

You have it. Go get checked out....do yourself a favor.....if you do not know what it truly is...do your research...or I will send it to you...I know I am Army Infantry....Viet Nam Veteran....YOU NEED HELP BAD Good luck
Help your family by helping yourself.

[Glenn W]

...I think the service changed me irretrievably. If you want to call it PTSD, that's cool with me. On return, I didn't fit in anywhere and none of my fellow Marines did either. There was just too much crap put in our heads from the Corps.

Ask anyone in the Corps and he'll tell you that in a short 80 days they can take a humble, polite, caring, Christian boy and turn him into a monster with a switch installed in his brain that can be thrown to close the "kill" circuit with just a few common events and by then all to common and familiar stimuli.

It's like training a dog to bite. He bites on impulse afterwards without a single thought about it.

It's what they do to you in the service. No one's immune. No one can avoid that switch being inserted. No one can remove it later...ever.

When I got back, no one I'd known could believe how I'd changed and how hair-trigger my temper was...about everything and anything. Telling, huh?

Some heros, huh? Monsters, really. Almost incapable of acting responsibly in society anymore. And, we're going to see quite a bunch of them coming home soon, quite soon.

So, if you love your kids do a couple of things so that they won't have to experience what I and thousands more experienced.

Keep them home and out of the military no matter what. Vote against warmongers and fearmongers no matter the party. Be ferocious with everyone you ever meet who in the presence of your kids suggests it's honorable to join the service and serve. It's not. It's basically murder. And, they don't need it on their heads the rest of their lives.

It changes you forever and not for the better. Those on this board who were combat arms, but particularly infantry, know precisely what I'm talking about.

LongFisher

Most of us here call it making a man of you. Clearly the Corps and its mission was not for you and your meek ways. The old advertising campaign of "looking for a few good men" seems to apply particularly well for you.
I can't help but wonder something here though---- You claim you were an officer in the Marine Corp. One would think that as a college graduate in your twenties, you would have had at least a clue as to what the Marine Corps does, and what its culture is. Why in the hell did you join the Corp over one of the other branches (if any at all) then?

[marine4003]

Thing about the Corp is, in order for the training to achieve max results,you need to "break down" whatever ideas the recruit has on order and discipline, one needs to in effect brainwash the individual, so coming out the other side that same individual has no gumption or thoughts on anything other his unit..one for all all for one.his country and immediate commanding officer.That is important because without unwavering discipline and staunch respect for authority,you don't win wars. Some come out with an eyes open view of what it was and why it was necessary,and some come out bitter and feel "used". As for life training..very few who were MC have failed in life, the few who have thru whatever reason still beat the average for a "successful" life.Statistically, i would imagine people who lead a very regimented life..set goals..work as a team..and are unwavering in pursuit of a goal,have higher financial levels,and a better quality of life than those who dont, and live day by day.2 pennies from me.