Jer, Quality VS Quantity ?,

[seapower]

I've asked this question before on here, never really got an answer though. I don't agree with the "way" cravertosu, complained about pop-up's, but I do agree with alot of what he was saying (I wasn't happy with the language myself). I know this is some type of "experiment", no need in trying to explain it in computer term's, cause I wouldn't understand it.
My question would be this (to any that care to respond), Isn't quality almost alway's better than quantity??? In my little world of working on boat's, there is only one side of that equation, quality. How can a site such as this gain advertiser's if the quality isn't there? I feel like I'm a target of advertising 100% recently (maybe that's the idea), instead of this being a "give and take" forum about fishing and related interest's.
We have "mix it up" that for the most part has nothing to do with fishing. I'd say that's why it's there, for entertainment and different point of view banter. I see where that with other "off shoot's" would bring in more viewer's, if there was a quality of content. Alot of the post's now are put up by a very few just to start a crap slinging contest. That's not quality in my eye's and it would not lead me to advertise (if my biz was big enough to support it). I strongly feel we are judged by the company we keep, our "company" is slipping. Add that with the pop-up's and I think we (as a site) are sliding down hill.
Just my opinion and question. I know this is your site and I don't have a "dime in it". I have spent some time on here getting to "know" some of the character's and for the most part, you've got a pretty good neighborhood going. Just thought I'd ask. Frank

[BarryTurano]

Frank,
I guess in the world of advertising, the more people looking at something for even a split second can generate something of value for the advertising dollar.
I guess we need to see this the way Admin does. It is a business and it's his business. Hell I would gladly pay an annual membership to see this place go back to what it was. I understand this is how Admin feeds his family, pays his taxes, and generally survives. You and I can appreciate survival. Hell your still working I just stopped after 48 years. So I guess it's accept or not. It just seems like this change (in types of posts) came on very sudden. I keep thinking that it's January instead of October there is not much in the way of fishing posts anymore. I must admit I was never one to post many fishing reports, because I was never out as much as others. But I used to enjoy reading them. Now it seems that alot of the members that used to post reports and educational stuff no longer are here or just do not post
Just my .02
Barry

[seapower]

I understand exactly what you're saying. I seem to also remember that you told me you had your own business aswell. In the printing biz it's about quality, the same as mine. One other thing is we don't have time to have folk's coming and wasting our time kicking tire's either. We both built our business's on quality customer's, right? What if you or I had a potential customer walk through the door using all sort's of foul langauge and making sharp remark's against the "good" customer's you have currently in your shop ? I know what both of us would do, show the jerk the door ASAP!
My question is simply this; how many "good" customer's are gonna jump "on board", if chaos rules? I tend to my loyal customer's first. Yes there is room for new customer's, but the guy that's serious and pay's the bill (long term) get's my full attention. Maybe I'm not making sense here, but I have seen many, many "quality" participant's leave this site. I really don't want this site to start down that "slippery slope", myself. I realize this is a business, it wouldn't make sense for Jer to put the time, money and effort he has into it if it wasn't. By the way, they have done something here that I would have no idea of how to create and keep going. I respectfully acknowledge and tip my hat to him and those that are a part of it.
No arguement here, maybe that's why I'm not in the advertising biz. Frank

[BarryTurano]

Frank,
We are in agreement. I do miss the quality of reports that WERE POSTED at one time. Where those people went I do not know. Or maybe they are still here but stay on the sidelines. The world is a different place now in the advertising game it's all about views. It does not matter about the quality it's all about number of views. So as long as the post and view count rises so does the value. Content does not mean anything. As I said the world has changed quality is a thing of the past in some arenas. When I retired from printing we were given awards for jobs that we produced that were considered superior quality. Well 25 years ago I would not have sent out a proof that looked like a job that we received an award for. It's a sad place there is no longer room for craftsmanship or quality. Now it's all about how fast and how cheap (at least in printing). Most of today's customers (unless they are from our generation) know nothing of loyalty.
But going back to this situation. I have to respect Admin for the foresight. I may not like it but I have to respect it. I guess "hits" rule!!!

[Admin]

Please TRY to understand me I am not the best with words that I'll admit hands down.

I typed this the other day and because the thread was not worth leaving my post is now gone.

Facts I have believed from day one that quality is the way to go.
Fact is I know that there is not another saltwater fishing site on the internet that has put the effort into bringing quality like we have.

Along with that quality it has cost us more then any of you could ever imagine.
Sad part is if we stopped caring and fired all staff and ran this like most sites I would do just fine.

Fact is you as consumers want more. You better want more as we can deliver so much more. Daily articles, Tutorials, fishing shows, phone apps and the list goes on and on.

I built this cause I love fishing.
The staff that works here loves fishing.

BUT, quality has not equaled anything but years of head aches.
Reason. Look around here wealthy eye's.Thousands of them.
These eyes buy way more the boating and fishing products.

Fact is sorta makes me laugh tons of you all own companies that provide either product or services and members on this site are your clients.
Dont matter that they are on a fishing site you have there attention.
For years it did not matter if you said 30$ or 3,000 for ads.
Just plan old did not matter.
Companies have had so much trouble grasping the net.
TRUST me our traffic on this site is pure quality.
At the end of the day companies who are buying online seem to go right for google ad words. Hell even look at the pop ups big name companies buy that crap.

TRUST ME I KNOW ITS CRAP I KNOW ITS ANNOYING.

Sadly majority around this site does not support it.
The ones who do have been here for years. They got behind the site and have made great rewards from it. Hence thats why the ads still fly.

After spending 6 years building something that hands down has built what the magazines once had you would think the support would follow.

If every person on this site that loves this site bought a small ad for there construction,landscape, home builders, paving, lawyers, real estate, doctors etc our member support could hands down allow us to focus on nothing but quality.

I spent 37,000 dollars on bandwithe this summer for tournaments. Most of you saw the ads on the coverage.
Staff 7 people
Hotels, travel , food you name it who got it done?

Who footed the bill for 6 years to provide all that?

Heck the best part is most boat builders and industry people watch the coverage. Viking for years has even published my photos with out giving me photo credit. Excuse me I have asked over and over for them to do the right thing. But they sent me a couple shirts and did it again.
Man thats so cool. Steal a kids photos! Bonnier, Espn, YAHOO had the decency to published our work and give us credit. Yet industry companies choose to steal it. I spent my money to get it. I spent my time.
And sadly that is the way the industry treats us.

The fix is simple getting members who can realize that they waste thousands in magazines , tv etc to just grab a small ad on this site we can bring you the best and not focus on anything but bringing in better action.

Now the world is seeing the internet as a new advertising media.
Wow that is great for sites like us?
Not really, as you can see they buy huge ad buys that run across thousands of sites from companies like google and vibrant. Its easier for that ad rep to make one buy then look at 30 sites for quality.
Sadly over the next year or so they will find out that most of the sites had no quality witch in return brings clicks that dont buy.

So the other side of the coin is this.
When agencies are buying ads the agencies them selves look to buy up sites.
Look at a company called internet brands. They bought the hulltruth and about 100 other sites.
They sold off to a investment firm about 2 weeks ago for 640 million.
Do you think the investment firm gives a rats ass about fishing, boating! Nope fill with ads do volume make money.

So we were approached very aggressively this sept.
Fact is Jer and I can look at every company who is wanting to buy sites and see how they are making money.
So if we do not experiment and see how this crap performs we have no way of understanding all the companies who want to buy these fishing and boating sites.

I do not want to focus on quanity I want to focus on incredible content. But at this point we do not know how to get through to anyone on why they should buy a ad.
Fact is the ads will sell services you all provide.

I have to understand the industry at the same time.
Scary thing is I watched this for 24 hours and to be honest wow tons of people did click and the money was really nice.

I can use that money to develop more things. Shoot more tournaments, build phone apps. Better weather.

Or some companies can step up and buy a ad that will do the company the own well over the course of a year.

You the members can push for it.
You the members can support it with your normal buisness.

But sadly most of you will say you can not spend 800 a year witch is 66 a month to promote your companies. We had to raise the monthly option as we spend so much time building ads for people who ended up buying one month and canceling or charged back even knowing they sold things. We lost money as we pay staff to build ads. So we made monthly higher as a one time payment is only 66 a month.
Fact is very scary how many companies who charter say they don't have it. I hope the life raft is up to date and boat is in good shape as I am not fishing on a boat who don't have 66 a month to spare.

Really wow what ever one says the best fishing site on the net and people don't think its worth 66 a month.

LoL but you can spend 1k 2k 3k 4k 5 k a week fishing.

You can buy 1 reel for the cost of a small ad on the site for a year. How can I make it simpler?
Oh i could give it away! Oh ya thats what most of you expect.
My heart has been in this and it no doubt has been a long ride. But at the end of the day I want qaulity but if the support is not there for qaulity i have to ad crappy things that make a lot of money to support growth. Yes I know i will loose some. But at the end of the day I have to look at all angles.
For that guy to call me a money whore I welcome him any time to pay what I pay out of my pocket in a year to keep the content moving.

HEY ILL SHUT OFF THE TEXT ADS ASAP IF SOME PEOPLE ACTAULLY BUY SOME ADS FOR EITHER THERE COMPANIES or Marine industry companies.

If I see support you will see quality its fact.

300x60 pixels

$800 Per Year Banner Ad Package
Click link below to buy a ad.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...=H7R74SHQJNZBL


Thanks and I truly hope you follow me.

[Jer]

Capt John Eppehimer (Admin) said it all.

We have been choosing quality over quantity for 6 years. We want to continue that but need support.

Large companies buy all the good sites to get volume (quantity) and make money filling the sites with ads.

The text ads we have been running for less than 2 days are just a test. We are testing the same formulas.

As Admin said we would remove the text ads fro the whole site ASAP if some people buy ads here for their companies. We can deliver the quality advertising you need for your business.

[BarryTurano]

Maybe my comments did not belong on this thread. I understand the need to make the site self supporting. Dare I say even show a profit (which in this day is almost unheard of). My complaint is that most of the quality posts and posters have seemed to abandon here. Maybe it is just coincidence or maybe it is due to the amount of BS that is now running rampant. That is what I was referring to in quality vs quantity.

[Admin]

Can I ask you a question?
Did you watch tournament coverage and do you think its quality and quality people watching it?

[teddyp]

Maybe my comments did not belong on this thread. I understand the need to make the site self supporting. Dare I say even show a profit (which in this day is almost unheard of). My complaint is that most of the quality posts and posters have seemed to abandon here. Maybe it is just coincidence or maybe it is due to the amount of BS that is now running rampant. That is what I was referring to in quality vs quantity.

Do you think that the stuff that goes on in Mix it up drives these great contributors and viewers to other sites? Are you kidding me? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. The reality is that people love the drama that goes on. All the people that you would love to ban from this site have PM boxes full of other people saying how funny they are. Not to mention that the people whom I'm sure your are talking about probably fish more days than most and spend a **** load more than you on this site. You can ***** and moan all you want but the fact is that the treads we start or contribute to get looked at the most. If you had an ad that ran on those threads you would be getting some business. I know that if I go to Bermuda I will be fishing with Wound up james do to the ad that he has on this site and that’s it. You know where I say that ad for the first time? It was on a thread where I was verbally crucifying Deepy for one of his many totally useless posts. The fact is that this site is good because it isn't just about fishing tips and locations. I never read sportfishing or saltwater sportsman anymore cause I don’t give a **** about trout fishing in Texas or shark fishing in San Diego. This site allows you to be up to date on what’s going on in your area. If you seriously want to get ride of the people that pull down the quality of this site then go vote for them with your wallet on the other thread.

[seapower]

I personaly did not watch any or the tournament's, it's just that I'm not interested in tournament's myself. I'm just a working stiff that like's to fish. That said I do think it's great that you guy's provide that for those on here that do. I am not down playing what you guy's are doing here, I said before that I wouldn't have a clue how to proceed with what you've created here.
I am not refering to the current "experimenting" you explained before. I realize (I don't understand) that you've got thing's that go along with this business, that must be explored to keep it afloat. I know this site isn't free to you as it is to us. I guess my reference is to why some of the really good member's have fallen away so fast over the last few year's. I mean folk's that really had a head on their shoulder's that provided great input without all the drama and low class sananagin's.
My part after first coming here (I'm not pleading my case) and really liking what I saw and the info being pasted was to; offer what little knowledge I had in keeping other member's boat's running. It just seemed the natural thing to do, kinda making myself useful in a sense. At that time the economy was starting it's now famous downward spiral, I as a member thought "hey that's what I can do to help out". I can only imagine that the word was passed, that there's some idiot on SFC that's giving free advice away that'll save us some dough. I'm not patting myself on the back here, as there are other good member's that do just the same thing. That is what I am refering to as the "quality" that I would suspect would help a "good" membership here and keep it growing. It's no secret that I'm computer challenged, but I have met some pretty good folk's both on the "net" and in person because of this site. So my hat is off to you guy's that make this happen.
Respectability is what it's all about in my world. I have quite a few customer's that seem to think that I'm "really good" at what I do. Truth is I'm not all that and a bag of chip's, it's just that my competition has gotten "so sorry". I think this site is a cut above the others too. The question was posed a week or so back about all the great charter captain's and why they didn't post up here? I tend to believe that they wouldn't want to be dragged through the mud, that's so quickly slung recently. I'm not (well maybe I am?) suggesting censorship, but if had my hand on the wheel the first "F Bomb" would get a warning, the second and "see ya". The same about trash talking a member's family, etc...... What other "business" would tolorate that kind of behavior? I know I'm just a hick from DownSouth, but in-excusable behavior can not be good for this site. By the way "cravertosu" is a freind of mine (because of this site) and I would have tossed him out the door too. I don't question the what he asked, but the way it was asked shouldn't have been tolorated either.
With all respect, I'm listening. Frank