Health Reform, A Transfer of Wealth

[longfisher]

Well, I've finally gotten a satisfactory answer to my bewilderment as to how health reform became such a political hot potatoe when, in the end, it really came down to insurance reform.

A wise elder explained it to me this way. The Republicans view this as a transfer of wealth from the haves to the have nots and the Democrats view it as unconscionable that for decades this transfer of wealth has been going in the other direction, from mostly the middle class to the insurance companies and then into the hands of Wall Street.

At least now I understand why there was such a pitched ideological battle between the two camps when to my mind as a practicing health insurance agent it really was about caring for people in the middle class who were getting daily screwed by the insurance companies.

Now it makes sense to me. Each party believes differently about how wealth should be distributed in the country. And, where Democrats pursue curing of societal ills and are happy to do it with taxpayer money Republicans, contrariwise, tend to emphasize the accrual of personal wealth, society be damned.

It sure never made any sense to me on the basis of morals. The Republicans are known for their many moral edifices and seem to be quite proud of the Christian values like Christian charity and shared responsibility, until it comes time to reach into their pockets to put their money where their mouth is. Then it's Nay, Nay, Nay.

LongFisher

[Glenn W]

This ought to be good----

[Charlie Wade]

???

You're just now figuring out this is all about redistribution of wealth? Don't you remember Obama promising to "spread the wealth" during the campaign?

Or, the favorite new buzzword from the left, "mal-distribution of income."

Hear it straight from Baucus. Less than 1 minute and very revealing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY4Qbv7gPbo

Like most libs, you appear to be badly misinformed where real data and hard facts are concerned too.

The Republicans are known for their many moral edifices and seem to be quite proud of the Christian values like Christian charity and shared responsibility, until it comes time to reach into their pockets to put their money where their mouth is. Then it's Nay, Nay, Nay.

You're also late to the party. Back in 2006 that right-wing bastion of conservative values, the ABC News program 20/20, explored that myth:

"...As part of a 20/20 special airing Wednesday night, Stossel interviewed Syracuse University professor Arthur Brooks, who conducted a study which found that conservatives, while making slightly less money than liberals, actually contribute more:

John Stossel: "But it turns out that this idea that liberals give more is a myth. These are the twenty-five states where people give an above average percent of their income, twenty-four were red states in the last presidential election."

Arthur Brooks, Who Really Cares, author: "When you look at the data, it turns out the conservatives give about thirty percent more per conservative-headed family than per liberal-headed family. And incidentally, conservative-headed families make slightly less money."

Forget the labels Republicans and Democrats. From my perspective, there are good, bad, and useless members in both parties. Focus instead on liberalism VS conservatism to get a much better/clearer picture of what drives behaviors.

My behavior, in November, will be to cast my vote to remove the current crop of idiots (on both sides of the aisle) who got us into this mess.

[Reel Fanatic]

Longfisher-

Don't mistake charitable giving with government confiscation. Very few government run programs can efficiently provide resources to the people they are intended to serve. Conservatives prefer to cut out the bloated and rarely honest middle man that does a better job of serving itself and give directly to non-profit organizations that have a track record or service. The government has a longer track record (or should I say rap sheet) of waste, abuse, and corruption than any Wall Street investment firm.

So, for the record, conservatives don't mind giving at all. We'll give the shirt off our backs. It's the "who" that we have a problem with. Social Security was supposed to be in "lock box". Unfortunately, that box was never locked and it has been a giant slush fund ever since. The same thing will happen with the new health care taxes. Initially, it will be used to put a bandaid on social security, medicare and medicaid. But ultimately it will go into the general fund and vaporize with no accountability whatsoever. Then taxes will consistently rise (just like social security) to replenish the overdrawn account.

[hotshot1]

republicans don't min sharing aslong as the money is going for just cause. Why should I bust my ass so I can then give a percentage to someone who isn't working ,( and a lot of times doesn't even want to work because they get enough in unemployment or welfare, not paying for their insurance and milking the system. this is where the Democrat vs Republican battle starts. Republicans push for self reliance while Democrats ask for handouts

[RWW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

[scattered_grass]

republicans don't min sharing aslong as the money is going for just cause. Why should I bust my ass so I can then give a percentage to someone who isn't working ,( and a lot of times doesn't even want to work because they get enough in unemployment or welfare, not paying for their insurance and milking the system. this is where the Democrat vs Republican battle starts. Republicans push for self reliance while Democrats ask for handouts

well put. sadly, there is no such thing as "self reliance" anymore..

[longfisher]

...the recipients of health reform before.

In general, most of those on this board who object to health reform include in the reasons they object the "fact" that only the lazy, shiftless, ignorant and perhaps minority masses are without insurance and that they don't deserve our help as a consequence.

That's a myth that's been exploded so many times I'm sure you're got powder burns, each and every one of you.

I'm a health insurance agent not a single person who contacted me about health insurance and couldn't get it in past 5 years has been a minority. Absolutely ever single one of them were middle class white folks. Every single one of them (well, there was this Chinese accountant who had cancer who also couldn't get insurance but she was making $100,000 a year and had a thriving business).

So, you're just perpetuating a convenient lie because it helps you hide from the immorality of supporting a corrupt system of health care distribution that hasn't hurt you yet. But from where I sit it would have one day...that's for absolutely sure.

Most of you are just unconcerned with what happens to the society because a Democrat is in office now. Democrats have the habit of passing taxes to pay for the debts run up by the preceding Republican adminstration and Republicans spend as much as Democrats with don't bother trying to pay for it. They don't because they know they'll be voted out of office soon and a more responsible Democrat will have to raise taxes to pay for their excesses. There's an incrediblly long historical record of just this very fact.

Here's a little taste of what I'm talking about. All of you are riled up because the healthcare reform legilation is scheduled to cost the U.S. taxpayer about a trillion dollars over the next 10 years. In the last 8 years Bush ran up a the national debt by 11 trillion dollars without a single whimper from any of you. And, that doesn't count the pharmaceutical drug benefit that he put in place early in his first term. That ******* is scheduled to cost 7 trillion in over the 20 years after it was enacted.

Silence is all that was heard from Republicans. That's because it's an electoral advantage for you to act financially irresponsibly and let the Democrat that follows get the blame.

Fiscal responsibility used to be a conversative value. I don't see any evidence of that anymore.

Obama and the Dems changed all that crap about the middle class getting the screw job from Wall Street. Even Republican hides will be saved now...as it should be.

LongFisher

[30' PURSUIT]

JUST WAIT UNTIL OBAMA PASSES CAP AND TRADE. REMEMBER HIS CAMPAIGN PROMISE? "THE COST OF ELECTRICITY WILL NECESSARILY SKYROCKET"! I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT, I ALREADY PAY TOO MUCH. IF YOU AREN'T SCARED YET, YOU WILL BE, YOU WILL BE!

[cravertosu]

If this thing is a good thing for the middle class then how come our health insurance went up $100/mon in Jan?

Why are we paying $1200 more dollars a year for the same damn thing?

I work to take care of MY family, not the bum and illegal down the street.

F&*k You, it's my money. Same goes for social security, the damn gov't is taking my money and pissing it down the toilet. I'll deal with setting up my future.

STOP TAKING MY MONEY!!

Tim