GLENN W /// "PAPERS REQUIRED"

[nautiduck]

Thank you for the civility Duck. As far as I know, the authority to perform immigration activities currently performed by Federal officials isn't really a controversial issue ( at least as far as I know). What is troubling to many are two aspects of the legislation (now law). The are as follows:

11-1051. Cooperation and assistance in enforcement of
15 immigration laws; indemnification
.
.
.
E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED
ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.

Whether you (we) personally agree or not, this is controversial as to illegal search and siezure.

F3. CONFIRMING THE IDENTITY OF ANY PERSON WHO IS DETAINED.

Glenn this is only a partial answer, as I havent had the time to put much thought into how to completely present my response but maybe this will do. As far as carrying papers and this only applies to aliens, resident or visiting, you will have some type of document whether green card or passport and visa.

8 USC Sec. 1304. Forms for registration and fingerprinting


(e) Personal possession of registration or receipt card; penalties
Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d) of this section. Any alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both.

Granted this only applys to immigrants(legal or not), not citizens. However as far as providing ID, one must remember that little bit of text (generalized) that is on most(Icant definately say all but I believe it to be correct) government ID (such as drivers license) applications. This identification is provided you from the government, whether it be local, state, or federal, and is the property of that government and must be furnished when requested by an agent of that government. In other words when you applied for and recieved your ID, whatever it may be, you agreed to forgo your "right" to anonyminity.

As far as an inquiry goes concerning citizenship during a stop, a normal procedure would generally be two questions
1)"What country are you a citizen (or national) of?" Is that an intrusive question? Considering this is a border state we are talking about, what would a reasonable person say?

Anything other than US or a US possession (such as Puerto Rico)may trigger the second question which is:

2) "Do you have valid immigration documents that allow you to be in the United States legally?" A legal alien will present those documents (they know that failure to do so may lead to arrest or deportation they agreed to that when they came here. See above). In the case that a legal alien does not have their documentation with them, the immigration databases generally will have the information about their status as well as their biographical information(photos and fingerprints).


The key word is "confirming". See, the Courts have ruled that that a suspect has no burdon to "prove" anything. In fact he has the right to remain annonymous. In Hibell, it was determined that a law requiring a suspect to provide his/her name is not unconstitutional. But this is a far cry from requiring "confirmation" of ones identitity. While I agree this will be what is contested, I dont think it is much of an issue. Even now in every state, if you are asked to identify yourself, and the officer has reasonable cause (say you get the address or spelling of your name drastically wrong or the photo in the database doesnt match your face), to think you are presenting a false identity (a crime in itself) they have the authority to detain you to verify the information.

It appears this this (F3) is what will be contested on the 4th amendment aspect of the right to annonymity. ( you are free to speculate on the 4th amendment aspects of illegal search and siezure of not needing a warrant to enter the home of someone that turns out to be an illegal allien).

Maybe this helps explain what some people's concerns are with this law.---- there may indeed be other peoples concerns that are not at issue here.

If this doesnt make sense I apologize I have had a long day and Im tired. So it may wander a bit

[worldcat lemon]

Nautiduck, where did you go? Hopefully the new wife isn't ruling the roost?

Glad to see your back man!