Fuel prices got you down?

[Glenn W]

I'm no physist by any means, but the assertion that hydrogen energy is not economically viable is based on the premise that it will be produced using current methods of production-- extraction from fossil fuels (namely methane). This is like trying build a modern computer with vacuum tubes. such that one would be fishing the wrong pond by dumping money in building a better vacuum tube.
There are many promising technologies to extract Hydrogen that are not economically feasible today. This does not mean they cannot be with more research. As an anology, consider the short time frame we lept from vacuum tubes to transistors to semi conductors.
Heck, right now we could use nuclear energy to extract those little bitty atoms from water. Hmmm?, a 1,200MW nuk used soley to make hydrogen. No one in their right mind would consider such a project now given current demand and the risk of building and operating a nuk.
So, I'm not talking about building a space ship fueled with a camp fire--- the practical energy potential of hydrogen as an energy source is beyond comprehension--- it's just a matter of finding the keys to unlock it.

[GALAZIO]

Galazio I'm not saying that we shouldn't use the oil, but as long as we can get oil from overseas don't use our own until we have to. I see you have used the quote "Oh, our poor children..." who said that, I didn't see that in any of the replies. And what is guitar hero? I wouldnt know as we don't have any computer games because both of my kids wouldn't have time to play them since they work whan they're not at classes at collage.

dmartin

Nothing was directed toward you personally, so sorry if you took it that way. All I was saying is we have done a great job of cleaning things up and setting the table for the next generation. At this point, I feel we should be able to enjoy our cars, boats & planes while the new crop of wonder kids figure out how to extract water from humidity to create hydrogen power, or how to create micro-solar cells that go into paint to create energy for their uses in the future. Last thing we need are more "Federal Sponsored Programs" to "study the effects"... just get it done!... but in the meantime, my shit runs off of oil-based fuels so why not get our own since we own it and it is sitting there? I trust our engineers that they can find it, and pump it without any disruption to the "fragile polar bears" and the "endangered Artic Earthworm".

And on another note, it pisses me off to see Dubai for instance taking shape from our money when WE have a resource sitting in our own yard which we could take advantage of and create our own DoBuy (see, I spell it different). Say what you want about it, and sure, they would still capitalize from their oil...but it would be at a fair market value and they wouldn't be building a country that looks like Disney World with 18kt gold urinals. If oil was traded at realistic prices, we would be light years ahead in "alterative fuels". As it is right now and has been, the real dollars are in finding more oil, not boiling water or realizing wind is free.

All those hhhhhammmend alla baba booyes can kiss my ass.

EDIT: You guys remember what happened when The Great Communicator said we had "lazers" and would melt any lifeform that screwed with us??? (Ya have to love Ronnie), Our "StarWars Denfense" stuff??? Remember? The ENTIRE eastern block of communist countries say screw this, let's straighten up... and they did, and the world is better off because of it (as they are too).

Now, What would happen to oil prices if a press release happened to be announced saying that we have found an are going to tap our own oil reserve that best estimates are in the trillions of barrels...?

Bet Oil prices drop...big time.

[eppefour]

[.
You guys remember what happened when The Great Communicator said we had "lazers" and would melt any lifeform that screwed with us??? (Ya have to love Ronnie), Our "StarWars Denfense" stuff??? Remember? The ENTIRE eastern block of communist countries say screw this, let's straighten up... and they did, and the world is better off because of it (as they are too).

Now, What would happen to oil prices if a press release happened to be announced saying that we have found an are going to tap our own oil reserve that best estimates are in the trillions of barrels...?

Bet Oil prices drop...big time

I think the Eastern bloc didn't so much straighten up as they went broke trying to keep up.
I don't think we can break the arabs. That is what they are doing to us.
We no longer have the cash to be a force in the world.

Interesting though that Exons profit would fill every car registered in America today 4 times.
Or you educate 4.6 million children for 1 year in secondary or elementary school. It is obscene that they made that profit and they probably will pay little income tax. it makes no sense to me

[dmartin]

I do like the idea of hydrogen as a fuel supply but it just isnt going to happen. Solar power to separate it from water is a nice idea but if you're going to make electricity from the sun it is much more efficient to just use it as electrical power than waste much of it on inefficient hydrogen production.
When hydrocarbons are burned the exaust is CO2 and H2O, the energy was released when carbon or hydrogen combined with oxygen. To use that "exhaust" again as energy means that it has to be separated from the oxygen that it is now combined with which takes more energy than will be released when it is reused. The fuel cell idea is driving the idea of a "hydrogen economy" and it sure is a nice idea but the bottom line is you can't burn the exhaust from your car or boat.

[neilinov]

The thing that I never understood about oil is this. It is sucked and scooped out of the ground and the oceans. Once it is out of the ground and into human hands we are not allowed to drop it back on the ground or water because that would be a national disaster. Didn't we get it out of the ground or ocean?

[Redfish44]

As a matter of fact they do. It f 'ing sucks.

[Dave Sikorski]

Iguana-

Break the mold and don't assume.

He's not my hero, and Politicians only push ideas that their constituents want, so that's not an excuse. Someone is out there convincing them to do it and it sure isn't me.

I like your Nuclear ideas Glenn and the little I do know about hydrogen seems promising. 15 years wont happen, and pulling out of Iraq is a terrible idea.

-D

[JOE_DIRT]

I have to say I can see both sides here. I enjoy my oil just like the rest of us, but what about when it's gone? That may be 100 years from now - or it could be 10 - who knows? Why not try to develop other methods? Why should we wait until it's too late to find an alternate source? As for AK goes, I don't see the harm in utilizing the resources we have. 4% may seem like small change - but it's 4%.

[capn_billl]

I am a physicist. I can tell you in a nut shell Hydrogen is not a source of energy. You must extract hydrogen which costs more energy than you get. Second Ethanal must also be produced, distillation is an energy intensive, (read expensive) method to purify it. Tapping the artic oil reserves makes sense even if it adds only a little oil to the market prices will drop. Prices are high because the gap between production and consumption is so small, and people still buy at any price. Gas prices have more than doubled, yet how many of us decided to walk to work. Solar with perfect technology will produce a maximum of 1000watts per square meter. The amount of sunlight that reaches the earth. A 100 megawatt solar plant will take up 100,000 square meters. If every one covered their roofs with solar panels, (at a cost of $60,000.00 to $80,000.00 per house at current prices). We could produce a sizable percentage of our electricity needs 10-30%. It would still need to be supplimented by oil or natural gas for winter heating, but nuclear power would be capable of picking up the rest. Without using oil or natural gas electric plants a significant source of oil consumption would be eliminated. It still makes sense to drill for more oil as we are a long way from being able to store enough energy in a car to drive any distance with out chemical, (hydrocarbon) energy. Cuba is drilling offshore from Florida right now, because we havent done so, (they can do it outside U.S. waters). Right now The major factor in the price of Gas at the pump is Taxes $0.70 - $1.30 per gallon, (depending on the state). Refining cost , (each state has its own blend by law) $0.30, cost of ethanol at $4.00/gal times 10% = $0.40 and cost of raw oil $88/BBL =55 gal = $1.55 = pump price in Texas .70 + .50 + .40 + 1.55 = $2.95. Additional refineries would lower refining cost, (pollution laws and red tape prevent any more from being built since 1978). Also if states standardized blend requirements it would not only reduce cost to refine, but would encourage competition among wholesalers. Change from summer to winter blends also require a shutdown and retrofit of refineries each year. Taxes; talk to your congressman, a democratic congress passed the current gas tax in the 90's to protect us from too low gas prices. They had to raise it as the ("road tax") was spent on other things besides roads, (I.E. PORK). If we went back to the laws we had in the 1970's gas at the pump would cost about $1.80/Gal. Perfectly reasonable considering inflation. Deisel once cost $0.60 per Gal. Now with PPB sulfer law and ("ROAD TAX"). It cost more than Gaseline. $3.15/Gal. Soon, but not now Asian countries will increase gas consumtion, Then we will be in trouble if we dont have out own source of oil.

[Dave Sikorski]

Welcome Captn Bill

-D