First time boat buyer guidelines

[worldcat lemon]

Rabbitfish reply

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Rabbitfish,
You bet! I will share my thoughts on boat buying, especially if you are going to drop a substantial amount of money. Here are 21 points off the top of my head, others have given great advice on earlier posts to my thread but these are mine:

When buying a boat:
1-Never believe what the seller tells you, even if they are a distributor/broker for the manufacturer, regardless of how many hours are on the boat( Not even on new boat). Also, do not believe the testimonials you read on-line or on the manufacturers websites, ask to have testimonials of people who were not satisfied with their boat and call them.

2- National Marine Manufacturing Association(NMMA) "Certification" is a scam so do not place any value on that. Manufacturers pay NMMA membership fees, NMMA pays their inspector to review their members boats, and the manufacturer is given "certification" because it met ABYC and USCG standards....wink, wink. If it was legit how did Tim Pitts from NMMA miss this thing? Don't believe the hype from the manufacturer either. A non NMMA boat manufacturer told me the reason he is not a member is because it is a scam...his words.

3-if a broker will not let you personally talk to the owner then walk away from the deal....period.

4-never take a recommendation for a surveyor from the dealer/ broker, especially if the surveyor contacts you, and walk away if the dealer/broker only gives you one name. It is likely a scam. Run don't walk.

5-Always take your own mechanic and have him assess the boat even before the survey, that way you can see if the surveyor misses things,especially things that have been covered up with paint.

6-If you are told it is like new, it probably isn't even close. If you go to look at it and it takes a week to fix the like new boat? Walk away and don't look back.

7- Get the service records before you fly across town or country before looking at it. If you are told they will be sent certified mail after the sale....walk away. If you find ANY damage that has been hidden or not disclosed to you then the deal is a scam...run.

8- If the owner/broker claims the boat has just been serviced or worked on make them show RECEIPTS for parts, not shop invoices for repairs( invoices can be fraudulently created to appear work has been done).

9- If any major repairs are being done ask to see it being done. If they won't let you see it...walk.

10- If you buy a boat and trailer as a package be sure to make them weigh both together at a certified scale to check compatibility. DO NOT RELY ON MANUFACTURES WEIGHT NUMBERS. My boat is 4000lbs heavier than W.C's NADA reported weight.

11-If the sales person tells you the surveyor you hired taught them everything they know about boat sales, you better run. It is a scam of giant proportions.

12- If the broker says they will detail the boat, make sure it is at their cost, or you should hire your own person to detail it. Brokers tend to be cheapskates and will hire lowball detailers and sometimes the work is shabby.

13- Have an attorney look at the manufacturers warranty on the boat to know what it really covers. You will know what the engine manuf. covers, it is pretty standard. If it is a worthless warranty like W.C's then have your attorney negotiate different contract terms. If the manufacturer will not bend, which they probably won't, I would look for a different boat or find one cheap enough you can rebuild it and still have a good deal.

14- Get the service records from the manufacturer. Get the engine history on the motors from the engine manufacturer.

15- Have your mechanic get any recall/service bulletins on the engines and major components.

16- Have your mechanic talk to the mechanic that serviced the boat. If your mechanic smell a rat, drop your cheese and go look somewhere else.

17- Run the boat out as many miles as you would if you were going fishing on your regular grounds and run it fairly hard to see if anything craps out, maybe even fish it.

18- I also would contact BBB's and state Attorney Generals for any complaints against the manufacturer, the broker and the shop that serviced the boat, especially if you are travelling from out of state.

19- Contact the manufacturer for a list of names and phone numbers of people who own the specific model you are looking at and call alot of them. If the manufacturer will not provide that info then get on-line and find someone close who is selling one and go test drive it, look at it, or at least call them and ask what problems they have had. Expect to only get partial truth.

20- Always go into a boat deal with the mindset that everyone involved is a LIAR. Then go about trying to prove you are wrong about them. If you get a gut feeling that something isn't quite right you need to listen to your instincts. Walk away.

21- Always carry "full coverage insurance", and make sure the policy you buy covers any damage caused by a manufacturers defect. Most good policies will cover resulting damage but not the defect itself. This could save you $10's of thousands of dollars.

Unless you have unlimited funds I would encourage you to take every precaution to keep from being burned by unscrupulous people because unfortunately they are more common than the honest guy/gal.

It is better to be fishing with the boat you thought you bought, than to be stuck in the bilge trying to get your boat to evolve from a pile of sea slime to a fishing machine.

Good luck!

[Big Fish Billy]

Looks like some good advice, especially the broker sponsored surveyor, common sense...

[Deep C]

Excellent point on the surveyor... My buddy looked at a boat 1000 miles from his home and had one of the brokers suggested surveyors go over it. I came down to look at it and figure how to get it from the gulf to the east coast. When I got aboard I found things not noted by the surveyor.
I could see the power as 6-71 TI but it was listed as naturals. Thought typo. Talked to broker. No sir "thems is natural aspiration"... I guess he wasn't looking at the same big ol donuts I was...
I asked to see his list of surveyors. Then went to the nearest yellow pages and dug one up not on the list. This guy already knew the boat and only charged us a little as he already had the survey done... I paid the man, read through it and turned to my buddy... Just start walking to the car, don't look back, turn the key and lets catch the next flight out...

[frankypettolina]

Some good advice here, but some very impractical, or impossible.

While I agree with a proper sea trial, running a boat as far as you would normally fish it and running it hard is not going to happen. If you happen to be buying a charter boat, you may be able to charter it for a day, but lets face it. In the mid atlantic your sea trial is not going to be made up of a run to the baltimore canyon and back, plus 8 hours of fishing, all while being "hard" on the boat.

Some sellers hire brokers just for the fact they do not want to deal with any aspect of the sale besides collecting the money. I do alot of pre-purchase surveys in a year
(more than most any buyer will deal with in a lifetime), sometimes the seller is there, sometimes he isn't. Just because the seller isn't there to hold your hand does not make it a bad deal.

I agree with finding your own surveyor, most brokers will give you a list of 3. You can check more than that if you are so inclined. To turn down a surveyor strictly because the broker recommended him/her is not right. Jimmy Fields, Roger Mooney, Doug Curtiss, Chris Ruggieri, Steve Trattner, Tommy Fowler, Chuck Meyers, and countless other top notch reputable boat brokers include my name on their list of surveyors- are they all crooks? Am I crooked? No definitely not. Just because the broker has my name doesn't mean we are in cahoots. I would suggest you call several surveyors, ask some questions (more than just what they charge) find out what they do and see if you are comfortable with them- then make your decision on who to use.

Asking for service records is fine- do it as a part of the survey process- that is why you have time between the survey and the acceptance of the vessel. Usually you will not get the records before you have a contract on the boat.

Likewise, have a mechanic inspect the boat as part of the survey process- you probably will not be able to send multiple mechanics multiple times. It just does not work that way.

I have seen the survey that you received from the guy who surveyed the boat for you. You know my feelings.

I know you feel that you were screwed over in this whole deal, and in alot places you were, BUT, believe me that not every boat deal goes like this, not every broker/seller is a crook, not every surveyor has a cane and a seeing eye dog, and they are not all in cahoots with the brokers. And not every boat is a POS.

I hope your next deal is better, and remember not everyone is out to screw you (I already know of one surveyor who gave you an hour of his time free of charge)

[Big Fish Billy]

Good one...how about this...went with a friend to look at an old POST he wanted, he made an offer and I recommended he use my surveyor friend, the broker visited while the surveyor was doing his work and offered him $2,000 to "adjust" the survey away from things he found, the broker knew were there. You need to have an honest guy and know a lot yourself...or you're going to get the shaft...my buddy bought the boat for half the asking price and fixed the stuff with the difference...he was very, very lucky....

[hubris 1]

GET A BRAIN......WHY IS IT EVERY BOAT BUYER WANTS A SURVEYOR TO THINK AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEM? IF YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR LOOKING AT, YOU HAVE NO IDEA. THE SURVEY HAS GOTTEN LIKE A GOVT STAMP OF APPROVAL. ALSO, IF YOUR SMART ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT MUCH MONEY......WHAT DONT YOU GET? A SENSE OF VALUE?

[hubris 1]

Excellent point on the surveyor... My buddy looked at a boat 1000 miles from his home and had one of the brokers suggested surveyors go over it. I came down to look at it and figure how to get it from the gulf to the east coast. When I got aboard I found things not noted by the surveyor.
I could see the power as 6-71 TI but it was listed as naturals. Thought typo. Talked to broker. No sir "thems is natural aspiration"... I guess he wasn't looking at the same big ol donuts I was...
I asked to see his list of surveyors. Then went to the nearest yellow pages and dug one up not on the list. This guy already knew the boat and only charged us a little as he already had the survey done... I paid the man, read through it and turned to my buddy... Just start walking to the car, don't look back, turn the key and lets catch the next flight out...

DO YOU HAVE ANY ROMANCE NOVELS PUBLISHED I COULD READ? I MEAN, YOU SHOULD JUST CHANGE YOUR NAME TO RENNAISSANCE MAN. YOUR A DREAM BOAT, WITH NATURAL 6-71,S. I LOVE YOUR FORREST, FORREST GUMP APPROACH TO EVERYTHING.

[frankypettolina]

I never said there weren't crooked brokers out there, and incompetent or crooked surveyors too. Just saying that all brokers are not crooks, and all surveyors aren't crooks or incompetent.

And Big fish, i saw you capitalized POST in your thread after i capitalized POS in mine.

Just to be clear- my POS was referring to piece of shit.

I have alot of love for old Posts. My father has owned a 1980 since 1983. it has been repowered twice (with many rebuilds on the first two sets of engines) and is still going strong thirty years later (although she needs a paint job, again).

Deep- amazing that someone did not know the difference between Naturals and Turbos- priceless.

[Big Fish Billy]

GET A BRAIN......WHY IS IT EVERY BOAT BUYER WANTS A SURVEYOR TO THINK AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEM? IF YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR LOOKING AT, YOU HAVE NO IDEA. THE SURVEY HAS GOTTEN LIKE A GOVT STAMP OF APPROVAL. ALSO, IF YOUR SMART ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT MUCH MONEY......WHAT DONT YOU GET? A SENSE OF VALUE?

Wait...hold on a second...yup...I hear Low Tide calling you....go see what he wants will ya....

[Big Fish Billy]

I never said there weren't crooked brokers out there, and incompetent or crooked surveyors too. Just saying that all brokers are not crooks, and all surveyors aren't crooks or incompetent.

And Big fish, i saw you capitalized POST in your thread after i capitalized POS in mine.

Just to be clear- my POS was referring to piece of shit.

I have alot of love for old Posts. My father has owned a 1980 since 1983. it has been repowered twice (with many rebuilds on the first two sets of engines) and is still going strong thirty years later (although she needs a paint job, again).

Deep- amazing that someone did not know the difference between Naturals and Turbos- priceless.

No offense taken, for some reason I always capitalize POST, I love them as well....here's mine...