Concealed Carry Profiling?

[Capt_John]

I had something happen to me today that I want some honest opinions on. I never use race as a reason that something might happen to me, but today it's the only thing I can think of.
I was standing in line at a Wendy's today after a long drive from Charleston,SC to drop off some lead. I had one of my 1911's on my hip w/ an inside the pants holster. All you can see is the stainless handle and Hogue grip. I had on a jacket earlier, but left it in the truck because I had the heat on. Now, I've worn a gun outside the pants for years without any problems before in the presence of all types of people(including officers). NC is an open carry state BTW that allows you to carry openly without a concealed permit if you want, but that's another matter. Anyways, I pay for my food and sit down to eat. A few minutes later an officer comes in and ask me to stand up. I stand up and he asks me if I have a weapon on me. I said yes and he turns me around and handcuffs me. When I asked why I was being handcuffed, he said he would explain it outside. He sits me on the sidewalk and pulls out the gun. I told him I have a valid CCW permit and didn't do anything wrong. Now two more officers pull up and a woman comes out and starts talking to them after they ask her some questions. Apparently, she called the police from her cell. She said that she felt threatened by me walking in and was in fear for her safety and for the safety of her kids. She then said that she was tired of "thugs like me running around this town with guns." I could hear everything she said. Now, I get pissed off, but I don't say anything because I know anything could happen. Two of the cops didn't know if it was legal or not for me to carry and they said that I could be lying. All they had to do was check my pockets, which they finally did after their superior showed up. He found my ID and valid carry permit. Now here I am in a Wendy's parking lot handcuffed with all the world staring at me. After a conversation the police had with the woman away from me, she got in her van and drove off. The first two officers then left. The superior officer uncuffed me, gave me back my gun and apologized for the "misunderstanding."
Now what would you do if you were me? How would you feel knowing you did nothing wrong? Now if I was white would this have happened also? I'm asking a serious question here? I feel that if I was white this would have never happened. This woman would not have thought I was a "thug". But because I was a large black man in jeans, sneakers, and a t-shirt she felt more threatened. Is this a valid point or am I reading too much in this?

[N2theBlue]

nope you are probably right. Its a sad fact of life but it happens. If you want you could probably sue the department and get a settlement.

[lark01]

that sucks we should all be able to openly carry . I dont carry much because of things like that

[scattered_grass]

now-a-days, with all the crazy stuff going on in the world, that some people would have become alarmed to see a gun on anyone, no matter what their race. I think mainly because of the fact that it was somewhat concealed (in pants holster), the lady may have thought you were trying to hide it. That being said, your race very well could have been all she needed to convince herself that you were carrying this weapon illegally. That sucks you had to deal with all of that.

[reelstripper]

People that misuse guns give the rest of us responsible gun owners a bad name. I would be pissed no matter if I was black, white yellow or blue. Officers didn't handle the situation correctly. I bet she wouldn't feel threatened if you had used your weapon to protect her and her children from a criminal. This kind of shit makes me furious. I have a CCP also and the main reason I decided to get it was to obtain a better understanding of the law pertaining to carrying a weapon and to be able to purchase handguns without the wait. You did the right thing by not causing a scene and I commend you for that. It also shows that officers are not trained well enough to understand the law, and it is just another prime example of how the system has been dumbed down so that anyone can get into law enforcement! Pathetic.

Please do not misunderstand me. I have all the respect for law enforcement officers for protecting us and putting their life on the line, but if you're going to be in a profession make sure you know how to do your job.

[blckbart]

Hard to say - Strong chance the woman would have called if you were a big biker dude with tattoos too. Unless of course she was a big biker chick with tattoos...

Was she eating a salad? Maybe she is a card carrying PETA member and anti-NRA - What kind of girl in NC doesn't hunt though....

Seriously - were the cops cool or were you handled?

[Capt_John]

I'm really over it to tell the truth. It just bugged me a bit. Oh well, I'm still going to carry for my safety. Especially this time of year. If this comes with it from time to time, so be it. Thanks for the advice.

Btw, I feel the cops were just covering their arse in the situation. I was more mad at the woman that started it than anything.

[Temptation Sportfishing]

I had something happen to me today that I want some honest opinions on. I never use race as a reason that something might happen to me, but today it's the only thing I can think of.
I was standing in line at a Wendy's today after a long drive from Charleston,SC to drop off some lead. I had one of my 1911's on my hip w/ an inside the pants holster. All you can see is the stainless handle and Hogue grip. I had on a jacket earlier, but left it in the truck because I had the heat on. Now, I've worn a gun outside the pants for years without any problems before in the presence of all types of people(including officers). NC is an open carry state BTW that allows you to carry openly without a concealed permit if you want, but that's another matter. Anyways, I pay for my food and sit down to eat. A few minutes later an officer comes in and ask me to stand up. I stand up and he asks me if I have a weapon on me. I said yes and he turns me around and handcuffs me. When I asked why I was being handcuffed, he said he would explain it outside. He sits me on the sidewalk and pulls out the gun. I told him I have a valid CCW permit and didn't do anything wrong. Now two more officers pull up and a woman comes out and starts talking to them after they ask her some questions. Apparently, she called the police from her cell. She said that she felt threatened by me walking in and was in fear for her safety and for the safety of her kids. She then said that she was tired of "thugs like me running around this town with guns." I could hear everything she said. Now, I get pissed off, but I don't say anything because I know anything could happen. Two of the cops didn't know if it was legal or not for me to carry and they said that I could be lying. All they had to do was check my pockets, which they finally did after their superior showed up. He found my ID and valid carry permit. Now here I am in a Wendy's parking lot handcuffed with all the world staring at me. After a conversation the police had with the woman away from me, she got in her van and drove off. The first two officers then left. The superior officer uncuffed me, gave me back my gun and apologized for the "misunderstanding."
Now what would you do if you were me? How would you feel knowing you did nothing wrong? Now if I was white would this have happened also? I'm asking a serious question here? I feel that if I was white this would have never happened. This woman would not have thought I was a "thug". But because I was a large black man in jeans, sneakers, and a t-shirt she felt more threatened. Is this a valid point or am I reading too much in this?

Quite frankly... once handcuffed you were " under arrest". Not free to leave .... There does not seem to be an establishment of "probable cause" for which you were placed under arrest. The officer could argue that he cuffed you for "his safety". However, with the open carry laws and you stating you had the weapon on, being cooperative, permit in pocket, I don't think that will fly. A few more questions should have been asked by him.
Once you are handcuffed ( under arrest )... you can't be "un-arrested" by the police !!
I would ask for a copy of the incident report and go from there.... Racial thing ? don't know... just giving law... Hope it helps.

[seapower]

It's the chance you take carrying a weapon, race isn't an issue. You and I may be 100% comfortable around gun's of any sort, some people just aren't. Ignorance was what you were dealing with, right or wrong. The police were called, they had to respond and check you out. I know when I was involved with any type of "weapon" involved, I secured the threat, justified or not. Sorted it out in a controlled environment, may have stepped on some citizen's toe's, but we all went home.
What many consider a threat you and I may not. I've never felt the need to carry. But I think that those who do know that some will be intimidated. It's just the chance you take. Frank

[hblac]

John,

Either the woman was racist or just an anti-gun liberal or both. That would be hard to determine now. I'd also say the lower level LEO's handled it wrong too. As soon as you told them you had your 'Concealed Carry Handgun Permit' and were within your rights they should have immediately examined your permit, your ID and released you. In fact they should have verified before they put the cuffs on you.

I travel alot from Virginia to Florida and its amzing the difference in the laws. In VA its not all that rare to see someone wearing openly in a restaurant in less urban areas(concealed carry is illegal in a restaurant that serves liquor). In FL you have to conceal, there is no open carry and you can be arrested for 'printing' or having it even partially exposed. Crazy isn't it?

Anyway, don't let it get you down. There will always be all kinds but hopefully fewer and fewer.

Hal