Caterpillar 3196 and C12 Lawsuit Update - January 11, 2009

[Storm]

Cat filed a motion with the court for decertification on September 19, 2008. Without going into all of the sorted details, I'll give a very brief synopsis from my admittedly biased perspective.

Cat expects trial to last more than one month.

According to Cat, its "expert" statistician Dr. Rose Ray, rose, so to speak, to the occasion with the brave analysis that; based upon six years of warranty records, 90% of 5147 (Cats latest version) aftercoolers will last more than 60,000 hours. 95% are expected to last more than 11,000 hours. Anyone that has a 3196 or C12 "marine engine" in the field with more than 11,000 hours that hasn't had an aftercooler issue, I would like to hear from you. Cat claims the 5147 aftercoolers have been original equipment on 3196, C12, and C-12 engines since January 2002. I know my engine required an overhaul in 2006 due to a leaky aftercooler that was installed in 2003.

Cat argues that under Illinois and other state law, customers are required to give manufacturer's sufficient notice of defect and make the item in question available for service. Since Cat openly admits that it had design flaws with early model aftercoolers, and since Cat redesigned the aftercoolers eight times in ten years, I'm wondering why the company wouldn't be aware that its customers were having problems with the product.

Cat alleges that the "common" issues can't be fairly tried on a casewide basis because "individual" issues predominate. I think it's clear that the common issue is an aftercooler defect. While some class members may have experienced or incurred more expense as a result of said defect, determination of an equitable across the board settlement shouldn't be that complicated. The class representative is simply asking for a "cure" in the form of an engine replacement with a non-defective aftercooler. If Cat makes an aftercooler that isn't defective, and it claims it does, problem solved.

I just saved one month of court posturing and pondering, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees. Send me a couple hundred thousand and a new engine and we'll call it even. Storm

[Deep C]

Jeeez dude... Let it go...How many threads on how many forums now?... I sympathise but bark at Cat...

[Storm]

Jeeez dude... Let it go...How many threads on how many forums now?... I sympathise but bark at Cat...

Wow that was quick. If you don't care or have no reason to read my threads, feel free not to. If my threads bark at anybody, it is Cat. Based upon Cats sudden and renewed interest in my website, Cat seems to be hearing me loud and clear. Or, maybe they just want to see if I've gotten my paws on any of the buzillion documents sealed by the court. Must be good reading. Over and out. Storm

[Deep C]

I read most every thread that hits this site... always looking for new and informative info... When learning stops there is nothing more. Your plight though is like a stuck record. Bring something new to it please. Its become so repetitive that I'm almost starting to feel sorry for Cat...
I've locked horns with several engine makers over the years. I promise that I can be a grade A thorn in their collective ass when I get on a roll. To get ahead on that game you gotta keep banging from a lot of angles... Repitition gets nowhere... Dig deep on the after cooler issue. Find exactly what was wrong with each of the advances that were made. Name names of who was responsible for what failure. Go to each person up the ladder in that corporation until you get satisfaction... Reposting same ol same ol stuff for months on end gets nowhere...

[Storm]

I read most every thread that hits this site... always looking for new and informative info... When learning stops there is nothing more. Your plight though is like a stuck record. Bring something new to it please. Its become so repetitive that I'm almost starting to feel sorry for Cat...
I've locked horns with several engine makers over the years. I promise that I can be a grade A thorn in their collective ass when I get on a roll. To get ahead on that game you gotta keep banging from a lot of angles... Repitition gets nowhere... Dig deep on the after cooler issue. Find exactly what was wrong with each of the advances that were made. Name names of who was responsible for what failure. Go to each person up the ladder in that corporation until you get satisfaction... Reposting same ol same ol stuff for months on end gets nowhere...

Let's see, how do I respond? a) All the information I just posted in this thread is new information. b) I know exactly what advances were made to the aftercoolers and why. My threads are intended to provide information about the suit, not to provide info about the mechanical issues. Like I said, if you don't want to follow my threads, there's plenty more to read about on this site. Storm

[Deep C]

This is the same exact thread word for word you beat into submission last week and the week before...ANd the same one that has been beaten to death since the fall on every site out there.
I know you know about the aftercoolers thats why I mentioned it... I'm not against you.. I'm all for it but for crying out loud, put up something new...
Name who did what... Not just generalizations. Get their indivual names out there and what each was responsible. Cat doesn't give a shit but start naming names and those individuals will squirm...

12 of thirteen of your threads you have started here are on this subject and since 2007 when you began this campaign you have really put out no viable information that people can help advise you on...

[Storm]

This is the same exact thread word for word you beat into submission last week and the week before...ANd the same one that has been beaten to death since the fall on every site out there.
I know you know about the aftercoolers thats why I mentioned it... I'm not against you.. I'm all for it but for crying out loud, put up something new...
Name who did what... Not just generalizations. Get their indivual names out there and what each was responsible. Cat doesn't give a shit but start naming names and those individuals will squirm...

12 of thirteen of your threads you have started here are on this subject and since 2007 when you began this campaign you have really put out no viable information that people can help advise you on...

You seem to be missing the point. I'm not looking for advice. The information I just posted regarding Cat's request for decertification is NOT information I've posted in the past.

Here's the skinny on the aftercooler changes. Thanks for asking.

September 93' - 6432 cooler changes to 5104. Vibration failures in 94'. Design changes and some vibration analysis.

July 94' - 2815 aftercooler introduced. Hardware modified including: (flange, tie straps, side plates).

1995 - Aftercooler changed to 5054 version. Mounting hardware changed including: flange, flange braces, return tank.

September 96' - 2571 cooler introduced. Water connection length, o-ring grooves, and drain fitting modified.

July 98' - drip rail added in order to keep condensate from draining into inlet ports. Side material and strap material changed to 304 stainless.

May 2001 - 9898 aftercooler, revision 2. Brackets from return tank moved to inlet/outlet tanks. Added weld between header and side plate. Thickness of inlet tank increased.

June 01' - 5630 aftercooler.

July 01' - 5631 aftercooler. Side plate to header weld removed at inlet/outlet end of core to reduce thermal stress in tubes.

November 01' - 216-5147 cooler introduced. Mounting flange modified to eliminate cracking. Removed brackets at inlet/outlet flange to allow core to move more freely. 5147revision 3 - Modified core assembly to prevent contact between header and side plates. Bumpers added and flange material changed to high strength low alloy steel, larger bend radii and bend relief notches.

Storm

[Deep C]

Bingo... Some new information... Even if we have members younger than some of its content we now have something to look at... A starting point to find a starting point. Rather than just report on "the lawyers are motioning back and forth" the kind of info you just contributed now starts to get the readers of these posts into the game.
How about a brief summary of when the suit was first filed, how many are involved, what compensations is realisticly sought? Have there been settlement offers refused to this point?

[Storm]

Bingo... Some new information... Even if we have members younger than some of its content we now have something to look at... A starting point to find a starting point. Rather than just report on "the lawyers are motioning back and forth" the kind of info you just contributed now starts to get the readers of these posts into the game.
How about a brief summary of when the suit was first filed, how many are involved, what compensations is realisticly sought? Have there been settlement offers refused to this point?

Actually, that's old information that's been on my website for months. The lawsuit was filed September 01, 2004 and certified as a class-action on January 4, 2007. To the best of my knowledge, more than 7,000 engines are included. I keep getting different numbers depending on the source. The class representative continues to press for replacement engines free from the aftercooler defect. As far as a settlement, I'm not privy to that information and the class representative isn't legally allowed to discuss any negotiations. I might add that Cat hissed at me for even introducing the idea of a settlement on my site. Therefore, I have to add that Cat hasn't yet been to trial. There is no prospect of a settlement in the works or under negotiation that I am aware of. So, we just have to be patient and see what reality brings. Hopefully more than a free oil change. Storm

[Younger]

Keep the info coming. Lots of people are having problems with CATS (myself included) and appreciate the updates.