Caterpillar 3196 and C12 Lawsuit Update, December 08'

[Bligh]

Originally Posted by Storm

My apologies Mr. Jost, I forgot to thank you for the compliment regarding the success of my public awareness campaign. I expect to be dead of old age before this lawsuit ever gets settled, if it does.

Let me explain why I have undertaken my campaign on behalf of all 3196 and C12 owners. For those that don't want to hear this, feel free to shut your ears. Like I said, this is a personal quest. Some time ago I had a meeting with one of Cats' attorneys regarding my recurring engine issues. With all due respect to this terrific forum which I enjoy the priviledge of reading and participating in immensely, I won't say how I really feel about Mr. Arrogant Peckerhead Attorney. At this meeting, Mr. Peckerhead Attorney was asked whether or not his client might be concerned about any bad publicity that might be generated within Maine's tight-knit fishing community as the result of a lawsuit. Mr. Peckerhead Attorney replied, "To be perfectly honest, I don't think my client really cares." I was more or less indoctrinated into the Maine fishing community since birth, so Mr. Peckerhead's choice of verbage didn't go over extremely well - to say the least. His offer of a small pittance for my troubles was an insult to my intelligence. This is how Caterpillar chooses to deal with its customers once their warranty expires, Mr. Jost. I was born with a bit of a stubborn streak (family trait). Consequently Mr. Jost, I have every intention of making said Peckerhead Attorney and his client, Defendant Caterpillar, regret the remark about my fishing community was ever made - whether or not it benefits the class-action. Personally, I feel Caterpillar and its respective attorneys are in need of an attitide adjustment. To that extent - my public awareness campaign might be just the ticket.

Last, I would like to point out, Mr. Jost, that my post earlier in the week has already generated no less than three e-mails from concerned individuals regarding their impending decisions to purchase a Caterpillar engine(s). If I can dissuade someone from making the same bad purchase decision I did, than my writing isn't a complete waste of time and energy.

Happy New Year, Storm

Storm I quoted you again, because the point gets lost so easy by corporate and specialty {Liars} Lawyers. Who are only paid to make problems go away in court! not out on the water or in our engine rooms! You are to be commended over and over! Keep up the hard work. I had a 2002 ford explorer that went through 2 transmissions under extended warranty and they assured me it was fixed only to have it happen a third time 5,000 miles out of warranty and ford did nothing and still to this day admits no fault even tho they call them ford exploders on any web search to day! Ford deserves to be bankrupt and toyota on top. The truth of cat cant be hidden? remember the 3126 crap they put out I was two of those recipients.

[Storm]

Aarrr Cap'n Bligh, Shiver me timbers mate!! So, you were one of the fortunate ones that bought a 3126 soft block that rusted from the inside - out.

Cats' low life lawyers are nothing but bilge rats, ehh? Here's my take on the aftercooler problem and why I feel Cat engineers are taking a band-aid and bubble gum approach. There are several causes of aftercooler failure; i) thermal or expansion - contraction issues, ii) electrolysis, iii) condensation and iv) vibration. Vibration is responsible for cracking core tubing as well as breaching the o-rings seals inside the cooling tube adapters where they meet the aftercooler housing. O-ring failure is a significant cause of sea water ingestion. 3196 engine vibration is not only responsible for aftercooler failure, it is also responsible for broken engine mounts and sheared belt guard mounting bolts - to the point where Cat discontinued installing belt guards. Last year Cat initiated one of its top-secret programs to replace broken engine mounts. Although vibration is a major cause of 3196 aftercooler failure, I am currently unaware of any attempt by Caterpillar engineers to address the issue. Cat continues to redesign the aftercoolers instead of addressing the cause. Cats' band-aid and bubble gum approach isn't working. Band-aids do not a cure make. You don't cover up cancer with a band-aid and hope it goes away. Maybe after Cat replaces the tube and fin aftercoolers another twenty or thirty times the company will change its method and try another approach.
Perhaps replacing the problematic tube and fin design aftercoolers with the more robust bar-plate design aftercoolers would have worked - because they might have been less susceptible to vibration and thermal stress. I suspect the real answer is to address the vibration issue, and to my knowledge that hasn't been done. That's not to say it's never been done - just not to my engine and not to my knowledge. That's my opinion, I welcome yours.
Storm

[SeaMent]

I hope I don't jinx myself here, but I have a pair of 1999 3116 Cats that purr like kittens, the sip the fuel and don't smoke and are not oil burners either. they have 2000 hours on em I'm guessin they are gonna run another 2000. The next boat I buy at this point will most likely have the Kitty Cats in it as well

[Storm]

Originally Posted by SeaMent

I hope I don't jinx myself here, but I have a pair of 1999 3116 Cats that purr like kittens, the sip the fuel and don't smoke and are not oil burners either. they have 2000 hours on em I'm guessin they are gonna run another 2000. The next boat I buy at this point will most likely have the Kitty Cats in it as well

I log over 10,000 hours on my engine in the time you log 2,000 hours. I guess that's the difference between a commercial boater and a recreational boater. Nevertheless, Cat advertises the engine as "the ideal engine for 40-60 foot (12-18m) commercial craft." Although, Cats' attorneys advise there might be problems from time to time if the engines are used in a "harsh marine environment." Maybe the engine was intended for recreational use on a fresh water lake. I bet if the boat was stored in fresh water and nobody actually went anywhere with it, the sea-water ingestion problem would be solved and the engine would last indefinitely. Am I wrong?

I managed to get 3,600 almost trouble free hours on my engine before each overhaul. My engine purred like a kitten, didn't smoke, and burned little oil almost until the point where it crapped out. Of course, last time it ejected the dipstick and all of the hot engine oil all over the engine room. It wouldn't have been so bad if I wasn't on a family outing with nine passengers on the boat. Luckily I had 100 oil pads on board and plenty of garbage bags. Ruined my weekend though. I had to have another boater make a lube oil run because I didn't have enough spare on board. Good luck with your Kitty Cats. I'd advise investing in kitty litter, too - because the price is going to go up after Cat goes to trial. Storm

[Storm]

Hey SeaMent,
According to recent posts in The Wall Street Journal, Baaad ol' puddy tat might not be around long enough to sell you new engines. It seems puddy is a victim of the economic downturn. Poor ol' puddy tat. So much for retiring on my settlement.

[SeaMent]

Originally Posted by Storm

Hey SeaMent,
According to recent posts in The Wall Street Journal, Baaad ol' puddy tat might not be around long enough to sell you new engines. It seems puddy is a victim of the economic downturn. Poor ol' puddy tat. So much for retiring on my settlement.

Hey Storm, who ain't a victim of this economy ?? and by the way I don't believe anything I hear and only 1/2 of what I see these days !!

[Storm]

I forget, are we in a recession or a depression? From where I sit, it feels more like a depression to me.

Not that you care, but here's my take on the problem with these Chatterpillar engines. Me thinks Cat is trying to stuff too many ponies into too low of a profile (39 inch OH) engine. All of them ponies/energy need to go someplace, and that's why vibration radiates out in all directions. Not enough mass, perhaps, to absorb it. That's why these engines have the propensity to crack heads, the propensity to shear belt guard mounting bolts, the propensity to break motor mounts, the propensity to crack aftercooler core tubes, and the propensity to breach the o-ring seals in the aftercooler adapter plates. It's a matter of harmonics. If this is the case, it might be a challenge for Cat engineers to tame these wild kitty cats.

Most engines I would select as a suitable replacement are too tall to fit in my engine room. The 6125 series John Deere has a 44.7 inch OH. The Lugger L1276A2 has a 46 inch OH. My choice from the Cummins line-up would be the QSL9-405MCD with a 42.75 inch OH. The Cummins QSM11-610INT will fit with a 39.84 inch OH, but it wouldn't be my first choice. The D112M 12 liter Scania might be a consideration with a 40.86 inch OH. If I had the money (about ninety grand) and the space in my engine room, my first choice would be the 14L 60 Series Detroit MTU with a 45.6 inch OH - that's what I'm talking about. This delicious diva from Detroit is one nice looking piece of mass.

Longevity-wise, some of the Japanese rice burners have a surprisingly long life span for compact engines. Two examples - the Yanmar marine line-up and the Isuzu marine line-up. I understand a couple of the lobster guys here in Portland have more than 30,000 hours on their Isuzu's with no overhaul. Them crafty Japanese fellers sure do have a knack for making compact stuff work and work well. I guess when you live in an area with a population of ten million in one city block, you learn how to make things work in a small space. I believe that's called adaptation. Why those high rpm rice burners don't just go off like a stick of dynamite when you strike an ignition spark to them is beyond me. Maybe because diesel engines don't have a spark. What did Hollywood honey Uma "The Bride" Thurman do when she was seeking revenge on her arch adversaries? She wen't to Japan in search of a sword made from Japanese steel. There's a lesson there for Cat. Perhaps Cat should move it's office from Beijing to Tokyo. Call it China syndrome, but I have a sneaky suspicion the Chinese have been conspiring to kill American consumers for years. The list of examples is long, but I'll be damned if I can remember what it is. Feel free to blame it on the lead-painted toys I ate as a child. And what's up with that vile, green, wasabi sauce they serve in Chinese restaurants? That stuff will burn the nose hairs off from a camel. Do you really think Chinese people eat that stuff? I think it contains waste from nuclear power plants. If Toyota built our defunct engines, not only would we already have replacement engines, we'd probably have replacement boats to put them in. That's what I call integrity.

That's my opinion, I welcome yours. Storm

[iguana1]

Storm

First off, good work sticking to your guns with the lawsuit.

Unfortunately I went through a similar situation with an American Diesel mfr a few years back. And their starting position was to hide behind lawyers. Luckily we got through it quicker (one year exactly).

It seems like all mfrs have issues in some of their products there days, and unfortunately they all seem to respond in the same way. If there were an engine manufacturer who really stood behind the product 100% I think the entire community would move in that direction pretty fast.

The whole thing strikes me as a sad commentary on what we have become. Also concerned as I just became the owner of a pair of C9s and hope to never have issues.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by iguana1

Storm

First off, good work sticking to your guns with the lawsuit.

Unfortunately I went through a similar situation with an American Diesel mfr a few years back. And their starting position was to hide behind lawyers. Luckily we got through it quicker (one year exactly).

It seems like all mfrs have issues in some of their products there days, and unfortunately they all seem to respond in the same way. If there were an engine manufacturer who really stood behind the product 100% I think the entire community would move in that direction pretty fast.

The whole thing strikes me as a sad commentary on what we have become. Also concerned as I just became the owner of a pair of C9s and hope to never have issues.

Hey Lizard Man,
I don't know if you bought new C9's or not. If you did, here's my advice. First, spend the money for the longest extended warranty you can get. I'm not eluding to the fact that you might need it because my issue is with the 3196's. Next, have all your work done by Cat service. Third, buy Cat replacement products including filters, etc. That way you're covered when or if something goes wrong. Unfortunately, Cat is pretty creative at finding ways to blame the customer rather than blaming the product. Whenever I think they've run out of new ideas, they invent another one. If we wait another fifty or sixty years, Cat might earn the reputation to change it's engine color to something besides lemon yellow. For now, I think the color is quite appropriate. Eat a lobster, save a lobsterman.


Best of luck with your new C9's.

Storm

[Storm]

Wow! It looks like Cats' attorneys have flooded Michigan federal court with paperwork the last two months. They might have to add more storage space at the courthouse. Maybe this suit is beginning to take off.

Here's some stock market advice from someone who knows nothing about the stock market. Sell Cat stock. Why? Because according to recent reports in the Wall Street Journal, the excavator manufacturer has dug itself into a hole so deep it might not get out. Buy stock in a paper mill. Why? From all of Cat's court filings and motions, it looks like the price of paper will be on the increase. If you see Cat tuck its tail and run, sell the paper mill stock and buy kitty litter. For entrepreneurs, here's an idea. You can probably buy all of Cat's filings and motions after they get shredded, compress them, and make wood pellets. You won't need to add glue, because they should already contain enough BS from Cat's attorneys to make them stick together. Kill a cat. Save a tree.

Storm