Caterpillar 3196 and C12 Lawsuit Update, December 08'

[Younger]

Pulling the injectors on a C-7 right now. A lot of work to replace bad o-rings.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by Russell A. Jost

I have a pair of the C-12's in my boat. There have been a few minor issues. I have their platium 5 year warrantee and any and all issues where quickly and professionally handled. I can't say enough good things about the service I have gotten.
When this is finally settled we will Know weather or not this has been a major service to the public or a major disservice.

I thought Cat was alright too, until my warranty expired. Unfortunately, the expense and frustration of overhauling my engine twice in three years because of the same defect changed my perspective. Not to mention thousands of dollars in lost income while the boat was out of commission. Now I have the same junk aftercooler (part no. 216-5147) on my 3196 that you have on your C-12's. That might not bother you, but it does me. Do you ever wonder why the aftercooler manufacturer won't vaildate these aftercoolers and instead absolves itself from any responsibility by requiring a waiver from Cat before releasing them to the marine market? Was that too long of a question? Do you think Cat knows more about these aftercoolers than the company that makes them? Or, do you think Cat just needed a quick fix? Sometimes when you're in a pinch, anything you can get your paws on will do. Storm

[Younger]

Originally Posted by Storm

I thought Cat was alright too, until my warranty expired. Unfortunately, the expense and frustration of overhauling my engine twice in three years because of the same defect changed my perspective. Not to mention thousands of dollars in lost income while the boat was out of commission. Now I have the same junk aftercooler (part no. 216-5147) on my 3196 that you have on your C-12's. That might not bother you, but it does me. Do you ever wonder why the aftercooler manufacturer won't vaildate these aftercoolers and instead absolves itself from any responsibility by requiring a waiver from Cat before releasing them to the marine market? Was that too long of a question? Do you think Cat knows more about these aftercoolers than the company that makes them? Or, do you think Cat just needed a quick fix? Sometimes when you're in a pinch, anything will do. Storm

Cat has knowledge about lots of problems that they refuse to fix.

[Storm]

No doubt! I've heard complaints from Cat owners all over the country, and a few other countries. It's not a small problem and not limited to 3196's. As far as the 3196 problem is concerned, they redesigned the aftercoolers eight times in ten years. Statistically, that means they got it wrong seven out of eight times. The probablity of getting it right this time is one in eight or twelve percent. The probablity of getting it right continues to approach zero with each new failure. Quite sure they didn't get it right this time because I'm aware of the number of warranty complaints. For those that want to believe different, have I got a great deal for you on a slightly used 3196 that was only driven by a little old lady. Storm

[Younger]

Originally Posted by Storm

No doubt! I've heard complaints from Cat owners all over the country, and a few other countries. It's not a small problem and not limited to 3196's. As far as the 3196 problem is concerned, they redesigned the aftercoolers eight times in ten years. Statistically, that means they got it wrong seven out of eight times. The probablity of getting it right this time is one in eight or twelve percent. The probablity of getting it right continues to approach zero with each new failure. Quite sure they didn't get it right this time because I'm aware of the number of warranty complaints. For those that want to believe different, have I got a great deal for you on a slightly used 3196 that was only driven by a little old lady. Storm

Pretty frustrating when little design and or manufacturing mistakes can cause so much trouble. I guess it would be ok if Cat acknowledged problems and made good but they won't even do that. NO MORE cats for me.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by Younger

Pretty frustrating when little design and or manufacturing mistakes can cause so much trouble. I guess it would be ok if Cat acknowledged problems and made good but they won't even do that. NO MORE cats for me.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a hero like the class representative. I'm not trying to save the world from their Caterpillar engine problems. My interest is more self-serving. As a commercial fisherman, my economic survival depends on a reliable engine. My 3196 engine was overhauled in 2003, including installation of a new cylinder head. In 2005, the engine required a complete valve train assembly, new camshaft, and a second replacement cylinder head. In 2006, the engine required another major overhaul, and a third replacement cylinder head. All failures can be linked to the initial aftercooler defect that was on my engine at the time of purchase. I gave Caterpillar ample opportunity to step up to the plate, but they weren't willing to go to bat. What's worse, my engine problems pale in comparison to those of other Cat engine owners I've conversed with. Enough is enough. When Cat eventually goes to trial, I hope there's a westerly wind so here in Maine I can smell the stink of kitty hair burning in Michigan. Storm

[Younger]

Originally Posted by Storm

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a hero like the class representative. I'm not trying to save the world from their Caterpillar engine problems. My interest is more self-serving. As a commercial fisherman, my economic survival depends on a reliable engine. My 3196 engine was overhauled in 2003, including installation of a new cylinder head. In 2005, the engine required a complete valve train assembly, new camshaft, and a second replacement cylinder head. In 2006, the engine required another major overhaul, and a third replacement cylinder head. All failures can be linked to the initial aftercooler defect that was on my engine at the time of purchase. I gave Caterpillar ample opportunity to step up to the plate, but they weren't willing to go to bat. What's worse, my engine problems pale in comparison to those of other Cat engine owners I've conversed with. Enough is enough. When Cat eventually goes to trial, I hope there's a westerly wind so here in Maine I can smell the stink of kitty hair burning in Michigan. Storm

I am in the same boat. The cats I speak of are truck engines upon which I rely to make a living. If they don't run, they don't generate revenue. CAT SUCKS.

[Russell A. Jost]

Storm, I am not putting this post up to start an argument but the contrary, you should be commended for your years of hard work, bringing this to the publics attention, winning the class action judgement, and getting a trail by jury scheduled for this month.[ I believe ] Your public awareness campaign in my opinion has been very successful.
I would like to offer another perpective. There are thousands of us that currently own the Cat products you mention above, there are many more that have other Cat products that are unhappy. At this point in time you cannot hurt Cat any more than you already have. It is in the hands of the courts and the respective attorneys. Cat will probably get another postpoment, the eventual trial will finally take place and I personnally think you are going to win and win big. The problem at this point will be the Cat attorneys will appeal and tie this thing up for another 4 or 5 years. Most of us won't even own the engines in the class action.
In your last post you say your interest are self serving and here I couldn't agree more. Your continued negative threads at this point in time are only hurting the current owners when it comes time sell our boats. You got Younger to chime in and announced to the world that he is having problems. I hope it doesn't come back and hurt him when he wants to sell. Your continued bashing only hurts current owners and eventually only hurt yourself.

[Storm]

Point well taken Mr. Jost. If Caterpillar customers can't sell their boats (including myself) because of the on-going issue of a Caterpillar engine defect, perhaps it's time Cat attorneys ended their "cat and mouse" game of postponing trial, stepped up to the plate, and resolved the matter. Are you not concerned with the more than ten thousand 3196 and C12 engine owners involved in this class-action and countless thousands of 3196 and C12 owners in other countries that are not included? Should we do like Cat and just the sweep the problem under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist?
Storm

[Storm]

My apologies Mr. Jost, I forgot to thank you for the compliment regarding the success of my public awareness campaign. I expect to be dead of old age before this lawsuit ever gets settled, if it does.

Let me explain why I have undertaken my campaign on behalf of all 3196 and C12 owners. For those that don't want to hear this, feel free to shut your ears. Like I said, this is a personal quest. Some time ago I had a meeting with one of Cats' attorneys regarding my recurring engine issues. With all due respect to this terrific forum which I enjoy the priviledge of reading and participating in immensely, I won't say how I really feel about Mr. Arrogant Peckerhead Attorney. At this meeting, Mr. Peckerhead Attorney was asked whether or not his client might be concerned about any bad publicity that might be generated within Maine's tight-knit fishing community as the result of a lawsuit. Mr. Peckerhead Attorney replied, "To be perfectly honest, I don't think my client really cares." I was more or less indoctrinated into the Maine fishing community since birth, so Mr. Peckerhead's choice of verbage didn't go over extremely well - to say the least. His offer of a small pittance for my troubles was an insult to my intelligence. This is how Caterpillar chooses to deal with its customers once their warranty expires, Mr. Jost. I was born with a bit of a stubborn streak (family trait). Consequently Mr. Jost, I have every intention of making said Peckerhead Attorney and his client, Defendant Caterpillar, regret the remark about my fishing community was ever made - whether or not it benefits the class-action. Personally, I feel Caterpillar and its respective attorneys are in need of an attitide adjustment. To that extent - my public awareness campaign might be just the ticket.

Last, I would like to point out, Mr. Jost, that my post earlier in the week has already generated no less than three e-mails from concerned individuals regarding their impending decisions to purchase a Caterpillar engine(s). If I can dissuade someone from making the same bad purchase decision I did, than my writing isn't a complete waste of time and energy.

Happy New Year, Storm