Captain License Question

[Bite Me]

I have an easy solution to the liability issue. As soon as you get onboard, take a drink of alcohol. If necessary, take another periodically.

When the attorneys try to say that you should have done this or that, you simply tell them you could not do so, as you had been drinking.

My solution may seem tongue-in-cheek, but while you have all talked about seniority of licensed captains on board, no one has mentioned the aspect of drinking. If you are a passenger - paying or not - on someone's boat and you drink, then you had best NOT take any action under your license. And I think the court would be hard-pressed to find you at fault for not taking action.

Brian

Brian, with all due respect, You have got to be kidding me! If the solution to the problem is for everyone, anyone to take a drink to avoid liabilty, we are in deep shit!
I could immagine me telling Captains that unless you drink, you may be held liable. If I did that and they didn't just immediatley leave, I would be suprised and start to question thier ability to be a Captain.

There has to be someone here with some boiler plate straight scoop about the what and what nots of being a Captain and not being pilot in command..

[Cowboy]

I have an easy solution to the liability issue. As soon as you get onboard, take a drink of alcohol. If necessary, take another periodically.

When the attorneys try to say that you should have done this or that, you simply tell them you could not do so, as you had been drinking.

My solution may seem tongue-in-cheek, but while you have all talked about seniority of licensed captains on board, no one has mentioned the aspect of drinking. If you are a passenger - paying or not - on someone's boat and you drink, then you had best NOT take any action under your license. And I think the court would be hard-pressed to find you at fault for not taking action.

Brian

There you have it, welcome to todays world to hell with whats right and wrong, don't bother saving a life to hell with what you should stand for or what you will stand for, just cover your ass and your good to go!
I met you Brian and with your credentials I really don't believe that you would allow a catastrophy but it certainly is entertaining discussion

[ocnslr]

There you have it, welcome to todays world to hell with whats right and wrong, don't bother saving a life to hell with what you should stand for or what you will stand for, just cover your ass and your good to go!
I met you Brian and with your credentials I really don't believe that you would allow a catastrophy but it certainly is entertaining discussion

No, Cowboy, I would not allow a catastrophe, and would try to prevent conditions from deteriorating to that extent in any would I could.

But the discussion was about lawyers holding us responsible because of our tickets. I have been out with Brian on RUN-OFF, with Jay on BITE ME, and with Rom on RELEASE. Was I supposed to identify myself to them as having a senior license when I came onboard? Was I supposed to monitor their safe navigation practices and overall vessel operation from the cockpit? Perhaps I should have made the same engineroom inspection prior to underway as I did when I was Captain on 400+ passenger dinner cruise vessels, or a 135-foot, three-masted schooner with over 100 passengers?

The discussion seemed to indicate that if one of those very experienced Captains erred, and ran us aground at 20knots, that I would likely find myself in the courtroom, and be negligent for not preventing the grounding. I can't accept that... I can accept that I would be expected to use all my knowledge, experience and expertise to help reduce further damage and injury after any such incident.

And very glad to see that my "have a drink" solution got some attention. When I am the operator I don't drink until we are back in the no-wake zone, ten minutes from the slip. When out on someone else's boat, charter or private, I may have a couple of beers.... and the lawyers would have a field day with that if I "sailed on my license"...

Brian

[Capt-D]

No, Cowboy, I would not allow a catastrophe, and would try to prevent conditions from deteriorating to that extent in any would I could.

But the discussion was about lawyers holding us responsible because of our tickets. I have been out with Brian on RUN-OFF, with Jay on BITE ME, and with Rom on RELEASE. Was I supposed to identify myself to them as having a senior license when I came onboard? Was I supposed to monitor their safe navigation practices and overall vessel operation from the cockpit? Perhaps I should have made the same engineroom inspection prior to underway as I did when I was Captain on 400+ passenger dinner cruise vessels, or a 135-foot, three-masted schooner with over 100 passengers?

The discussion seemed to indicate that if one of those very experienced Captains erred, and ran us aground at 20knots, that I would likely find myself in the courtroom, and be negligent for not preventing the grounding. I can't accept that... I can accept that I would be expected to use all my knowledge, experience and expertise to help reduce further damage and injury after any such incident.

And very glad to see that my "have a drink" solution got some attention. When I am the operator I don't drink until we are back in the no-wake zone, ten minutes from the slip. When out on someone else's boat, charter or private, I may have a couple of beers.... and the lawyers would have a field day with that if I "sailed on my license"...

Brian

Brian, You may not accept it, but unfortunately in today's litigious society you may be forced to if ever put in the situation. Unfourtunately normal course of reason and common sense is often thrown out when it comes to civil cases. With lawyer's incomes based on 30-50% of the monetary result or settlement of cases your professional license will look mighty tempting whether you were or were not directly involved with an incident. I work in the construction/environmental industry and can say for a fact when a tort occurs everyone from the general contractor, to the architect to the wall paper hanger are included just so they (the lawyers) can find the deepest pockets.

-D

[ocnslr]

Brian, You may not accept it, but unfortunately in today's litigious society you may be forced to if ever put in the situation. Unfourtunately normal course of reason and common sense is often thrown out when it comes to civil cases. With lawyer's incomes based on 30-50% of the monetary result or settlement of cases your professional license will look mighty tempting whether you were or were not directly involved with an incident. I work in the construction/environmental industry and can say for a fact when a tort occurs everyone from the general contractor, to the architect to the wall paper hanger are included just so they (the lawyers) can find the deepest pockets.
-D

I have some "green table" experience, but no courtroom experience. I have no reason to doubt the dire picture you have painted. Sorry a** situation.

So, I guess I will simply have to stop going out on any/all charters, or on any boat other than our own - for hire or as a guest - due to the risk... or turn in my ticket...

Brian

[Capt-D]

So, I guess I will simply have to stop going out on any/all charters, or on any boat other than our own - for hire or as a guest - due to the risk... or turn in my ticket...

Brian

Not really,

Just need to spend a couple of bucks and get some personal liability insurance!

Insurance Companies are just above Lawyers and just below pond scum in the natural order of things IMO, but like lawyers they are a nessescary evil!

-D

[MakoMike]

FWIW,
I know of at least pne case in NY where a licensed captain who was a guest on the boat was held partially liable for an incident, because "he should have known better nad taken over control."

[liv2fish]

I cant help but to responsed to this one there are other reasons to get your ticket,In my case our insurance company will not let a unlicensed captain operate any of our boats.

[fishskipper]

I'm not a lawyer and may be wrong imo, but I can't believe that another captain onboard could be held accountable for another in charge captains actions. A charter boat in this area recently went aground with two injuries. The mate on board was an licensed captain who sometime ran the boat. The mate was slightly injured. There were no implication that the mate was in anyway responsible for the captains action, which was nothing more than pilot error. I do agree that anyone can be sued for any reason in this crazy mixed up world we live in. But, I think the difference here is in the wording "A boat for Hire" and operated by C G Licensed Marine Officer for that vessel.

[MakoMike]

Skipper,
Big difference in facts. In your case there already was a licensed caotain at the helm. In the case I'm referring to the owner (unlicensed) of the vessel was piloting her.