BASEBALL FANS... Interesting read

[GALAZIO]

Here's the link to an interesting report on Clemens as he directly compared to Kurt Schilling, Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryan through his career. This isn't about IF he or anyone did or did not use PED's rather, just a comparison, year by year... Very Interesting.

http://www.rogerclemensreport.com/re...mensReport.pdf

[OffTheHook13]

That's an interesting bunch of stats and details.

I only briefly looked at it but I saved it to look at again.

It's a very large amount read at all at once.

But, none of his stats post PED really mean anything.

Bottom line, he cheated just like MOST of the league.

MLB is now one big hoax.

Actually, most sports are. Sad but true. They are no better than WWF.

[shoefish]

So I looked through about half of it quickly. It's pretty interesting when you look at the numbers from '94-'96ish...he had his worst years then, and it would appear he was going downhill. He was also injured during those years, so did the injuries cause the bad numbers and then he got healthy or did the injuries cause him to take "other" action. I guess we'll never really know the truth.

One thing that's interesting is if you look at ERA over his career compared to Johnson, Schilling, and Ryan- everyone else's improves at the middle of their careers and then dips towards the end (just as you'd assume would happen). Roger's stays high throughout...again, proof that he was a one-of-a-kind pitcher, or proof that something isn't right?

What did you take out of it Galazio?

[ejstenger]

Nothing is sacred anymore and it is all the way from the boardroom to the field. Just anything goes if it boosts the bottom line. Cheating has gone through all the sports and it seems that you have to have a rule on it or the cheating is accepted as the norm. I love baseball but I hate the cheating.It even went through pro bass fishing a few years ago with some penning fish and putting them in the livewell after the tournament started, even found the pens that they set up. Look at how Barry Bonds Bulked up in a year or so, from a 90#er to a big guy.

[GALAZIO]

Here's my take...

Does drinking a RedBull to "jump start" your day selling equate to PED's?

Does taking some of those "fat burners" a few years ago that had ephedra in them now make you a criminal just because it is now illegal, but legal then?

Does taking a cycle of steriods from your Dr to help cure / heal an illness make you a criminal?

Here's my take, do I think guys loading up on the juice to compete is right? NO.

Do I think it is fair or legal for MLB to have a "witchhunt" when the whole time they knew and turned a blind eye towards the loading of PED's... AND it was not deemed against the rules or illegal at the time? HELL NO.

Would I be tempted to take something that could help me get out of bed earlier, feel better and get into the gym and stay on the field...and it was not a breach of the rules of the game (not to mention, ink a 100 million dollar deal)? YES

Does all this 'Roid talk suck? HELL YES

Do I think most of the Allstars from the past decade, including Schilling, have taken something? YES (having 83 names in a report that over the same time period, the league had something like 5,000 player come and go is not a problem... the problem is not all "offenders" are named in the Mitchell Report and too much time is being focused on a witchhunt, not fixing the problem, ie: Bud Selig & the Players Union).

Will it make me see the game in a different light? NO.

Will I continue to be a fan of the game? HELL YES.

EDIT: As for the report, on page 33, the two graphs show a steady decline, no PEAKS as some want you to believe. And on the last page referring to "What If" Roger played for the Rangers in 2005, well, I could have gone 15-10 on that team. What it boils down to are those in the field and behind the plate. I also look at those who were All-World, inked BIG DEALS and then fell off the face of the earth: Randy Johnson, Pudge and others. Hell, Pudge showed up at Spring Training 30lbs lighter than his entire career when they announced testing was going to start. And his numbers have shown the difference... or is it age? or is it pitchers on PED's? No one will ever know.

And Shoe... Everyone knows that the National League DOES NOT have the offense the American league has. Also, no DH. I would have guessed that his innings pitched while in Houston would have been lower (as well as his ERA) since he has to hit too... but no, his innings pitched stayed high. Then I remembered he got Zero, squadouche, Nada in support from the team. They (Houston), rode him like a horse during those years. His ERA was lower because of the quality of hitters in the NL in my opinion, not because he was some monster on the mound. Now, which year did he throw the bat at Piaza and he said he thought it was the ball??? 2000? (So Roger...were you just going to "gun" Piaza down in the base path, or was there a little "rage" kicking in? First base is a little further to the left).

So, did he, or didn't he? I don't know. All I know is he is the best pitcher I have ever seen (and I got to witness two of Nolan's No-No's, who IMO was the second best I have ever seen).

[Big Jay]

Here's my take...

Does drinking a RedBull to "jump start" your day selling equate to PED's?

Does taking some of those "fat burners" a few years ago that had ephedra in them now make you a criminal just because it is now illegal, but legal then?

Does taking a cycle of steriods from your Dr to help cure / heal an illness make you a criminal?

Here's my take, do I think guys loading up on the juice to compete is right? NO.

Do I think it is fair or legal for MLB to have a "witchhunt" when the whole time they knew and turned a blind eye towards the loading of PED's... AND it was not deemed against the rules or illegal at the time? HELL NO.

Would I be tempted to take something that could help me get out of bed earlier, feel better and get into the gym and stay on the field...and it was not a breach of the rules of the game (not to mention, ink a 100 million dollar deal)? YES

Does all this 'Roid talk suck? HELL YES

Do I think most of the Allstars from the past decade, including Schilling, have taken something? YES (having 83 names in a report that over the same time period, the league had something like 5,000 player come and go is not a problem... the problem is not all "offenders" are named in the Mitchell Report and too much time is being focused on a witchhunt, not fixing the problem, ie: Bud Selig & the Players Union).

Will it make me see the game in a different light? NO.

Will I continue to be a fan of the game? HELL YES.

I agree with most of your points. The sad thing is baseball like you said turning a blind eye and its back to its players when the reality of the matter is they never had any regulation of its use.