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Thread: Anglers Square off With NMFS

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    Anglers Square off With NMFS

    From Key West to Kennebunkport, east coast anglers are up in arms over the latest incursion that National Marine Fisheries Service has thrust into the recreational fishing community. The NMFS announced earlier this week that they would permit only circle hooks to target billfish in fishing tournaments along the east coast for those using natural bait or combination artifical and natural baits.

    This has been a sore subject among the billfishing community participants for several years now. It began when an enviromentalist group petitioned to have the white marlin included on an endgangered species list. To draw support for their cause, unsupportable flawed data was offered as proof of severely depleted stocks of the popular sportfish. What made the data so unreliable was the very nature of white marlin. Being true pelagic species they cruise the open ocean and random sampling of certain areas can not take into account variation of their movements. It also fails to include the presence or lack of presence of bait stocks in a given area at sampling time.

    Under pressure to do something from the group, the NMFs proposed shutting down the recreational fishery for white marlin all together for a period of years. In reality such a move would have effectively no impact on the stocks, as the number killed by sportsmen along the entire Atlantic coast annually is a smaller number than are killed by accident in a single misplaced longline set or single days net bycatch in open waters.

    Multiple interests instanly responded to the threat of a shut down, citing the deep economic impact the industry and several communities would endure. Still the enviromentalists pressed on and levvied law suits against NMFS for not labling the fish endangered. Rather than face the suits , Fisheries officials began a negotiation process. Public outcry necessitated the fisheries to include their input as to their decision making process.

    Debates and public meetings outlined several proposals that could quell both sides of the debate. At the public meetings, NMFS outlined a proposal that would include the use of circle hooks for the white marlin fishery. Circle hooks were brought into the discussion as an alternative to the standard "J" hook because of the lower mortality rate they provide. It has been demonstrated that the circle hook most often sets in the jaw or corner of the mouth in areas that do not cause the long term damage that deeper places can. Artificial lure manufacturers instantly jumped into the game pointing out that circle hooks were virtually 100% ineffective in conjunction with their product. Extensive and expensive research by NMFS found that their claim was indeed valid and exempted artificial baits from the circle hook rule. The findings validated that because no "drop back" was involved with lures and that fish seldom swallowed them. That deep potentially life threatening hook placement was not as likely as with a natural bait that is usually "fed" or "dropped back" to the fish.

    The use of circles would have impact on the numbers of caught fish. The hook up ratio being far lower with their use than traditional "J" hooks. The resulting economic impact would be felt by people throughout the industry directly and indirectly as the frustratingly low hook up percentage coupled with astronomical fuel prices will force many to give up the sport.The passage of a measure such as this would have little if any impact on the health of the white marlin stocks but it represented a willingness for compromise by the sportfishing community.

    As the debates centered around only white marlin and the circle hook use in strictly natural bait situations, the public input was limited to that alone. Now in underhanded fashion, NMFS has handed down an altered resolution that carries the circle hooks to combination artificial/ natural baits and continues past white marlin to include sailfish and blue marlin. Neither species or the combination baits had been brought before the public for their input.

    Outraged by the blatant deception on the part of NMFS, anglers are now up in arms and are preparing lawsuits of their own that could bankrupt the cash strapped agency in legal fees alone. For some enraged by this, just the latest in a long line of confrontations with NMFS, blocking the circle hook and multiple billfish species is only the tip of their iceberg. Growing public sentiment is outraged by the encroachment of the NMFS into the recreational fisheries.

    "The agency was instituted to deal with commercial exploitation of vulnerable stocks and the protection of endangered species. They have spilled over their bounds and are causing multiple millions of dollars worth of damage to the industries surrounding sport fishing. Its time to push them back into the role they were created for. There are individual state laws to deal with the sport end of the industry..." Was stated recently by one outraged angler.

    Other sentiments echoed that statement and went on to include, "Hogarth and his band of thugs need to be removed from power. Their abuse of it makes them unfit to serve in any public office."

    A charter boat captain in Palm Beach, Flordida had this to offer. "Its utter BS! Sailfish are not a commercial entity and NMFS has no business dictating to us on how we fish. We voluntarily use circles on kites because of the long drop we get off them. It keeps the fish from being gut hooked but dead bait is a deifferent story. The hook up ratio is far lower using them. Too low! On big baits and blue marlin its next to impossible to hook them using circles! The same goes for combos."

    Yet another boat owner in Ocean City, Md. had this to add, "Look around this marina. There is a quarter billion dollars of machinery used primarily for tournament marlin fishing. Thats billion with a "B" ! Now with circle hooks that produce only one third the hook ups or less than "J" hooks how long do you think these guys are going to want to dump that kid of money in the sport."

    Capt John Eppenheimer, spokesperson for Sportfishermen.com a 5000 member organization had this to offer, " A large portion of our membership is made up of tournament billfishermen and see this as an obstacle to their ability to feed their families. The much lower hook up rate utilizing circle hooks will disuade passengers from wanting to compete in the tournaments. Other members are involved with small lure manufacture that would be adversely affected by the "combo" inclusion under the present circle provision. Yet another portion of our membership is involved with the services end of the equation. Marinas, bait and tackle outfits, restaurants and hotels will feel the adverse effects with certainty. Lets not forget the boat builders and dealers who will loose due to the thoughtless actions of NMFS. The numbers are not small. Millions and millions will be lost if they enact this new rule as it is presented."

    Persons upset by the recent developments and or the involvement of NMFS in recreational affairs are strongly urged to join their fellow anglers and voice your opinions and comments to all the parties listed on the NMFS contact list.
    http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/contact.htm
    Last edited by Deep C; 07-16-2006 at 07:26 PM.

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    So who else has stuff they want to add to the quote section?... The article is gonna get a lot of play here very soon... Like on coastwide level...

    Don't be shy!

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    I spent all of my Coast Guadr seatime working in fisheries law enforcement. That required hand-in-hand work with NMFS. NMFS does much, much more than regulate HMS, much more than any charter fisherman will ever know.

    Why do I say this, NMFS is much biger than any single recreational-impacted rule change and to think that NMFS will be adversely affected by some pissed off recreational anglers is a big mistake. To that end, trying to place personal attacks in an article of this type will only make you sound like an angry child trying to get your way, regardless of other aspects of the issue beyond you.

    I would recommend that the article focus more on fisheries fact (recreational mortality statistics, with respect to hook style, and the such) and not try to attack the people in the jobs. NMFS has credibility far beyond the recreational fishery, (and charter fishing is NOT commercial fishing in this arena) just take a trip to the Bearing Sea one day and see what they do up there keeping every seagoing nation on the planet from raping an enormous resource, and you wil realize that no recreational/charter-based attack will change anything. If you attack, you will be ignored. If you present a factual argument, you may have some success.

    And I'm not a NMFS guy, just someone who has seen a side of fisheries management/enforcement that most sportfisherman have not. My $0.02

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuna Taxi
    I spent all of my Coast Guadr seatime working in fisheries law enforcement. That required hand-in-hand work with NMFS. NMFS does much, much more than regulate HMS, much more than any charter fisherman will ever know.

    Why do I say this, NMFS is much biger than any single recreational-impacted rule change and to think that NMFS will be adversely affected by some pissed off recreational anglers is a big mistake. To that end, trying to place personal attacks in an article of this type will only make you sound like an angry child trying to get your way, regardless of other aspects of the issue beyond you.

    I would recommend that the article focus more on fisheries fact (recreational mortality statistics, with respect to hook style, and the such) and not try to attack the people in the jobs. NMFS has credibility far beyond the recreational fishery, (and charter fishing is NOT commercial fishing in this arena) just take a trip to the Bearing Sea one day and see what they do up there keeping every seagoing nation on the planet from raping an enormous resource, and you wil realize that no recreational/charter-based attack will change anything. If you attack, you will be ignored. If you present a factual argument, you may have some success.

    And I'm not a NMFS guy, just someone who has seen a side of fisheries management/enforcement that most sportfisherman have not. My $0.02
    Very Good $0.02 at that !
    Please if you have stuff to say ! Say it let this be a group letter. Changes can and will be made. Write small press releases and post them up on your thoughts on this.

    I would like to here everyones points of view !

    Thanks
    John





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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuna Taxi
    NMFS has credibility far beyond the recreational fishery, My $0.02
    ????????????????????
    Yes they have done good protecting that piece of water but have failed many other places else they go. Since it was brought up:
    They do only a fair job enforcing the commercial end in the east. Just look at the White Dove's rap sheet and their continued disregard for laws and NMFS refusing over and over to do anything about it...

    Thye have screwed the pooch out here in the north and south east since their inception. I feel bad for the Coasties that have to do the enforcement... They have enough other stuff on their plate.

    This is not about their commercial enforcement though. THE NMFS HAVE NO RIGHT OR AUTHORITY TO INVOLVE THEM SELF IN TH RECREATIONAL END!!!!!!!


    They are the ones who presented the mortality rates as being negligible from the entire rec industry. THEM not US... Then they ignore their own numbers all together in this decision. Its a political placebo move to stop the suits from the bunny huggers. Sailfish have no commercial value and are not within their regulatory powers yet they want to set rules for them. Horse crap!

    As for doing proper studies their response is "they can't " citing a lack of time, manpower or finance.... So they err on the side of who's got the most lawsuits running against them. We had to pony up the bucks to get THEM to do the lure study. We didn't have the money to pay them to do a new in depth study on the mortality rates of J vs Circle. They chose to go on hearsay and studies provided by the bunny boinkers them selves.... So they err on the side of who's got the most lawsuits running against them.

    From their mission statement : "Using the tools provided by the Magnuson-Stevens Act, NOAA's National Marine Fisheries Service assesses and predicts the status of fish stocks, ensures compliance with fisheries regulations and works to reduce wasteful fishing practices. Under the Marine Mammal Protection Act and the Endangered Species Act, NOAA's National Marine Fisheries Service recovers protected marine species (i.e. whales, turtles) without unnecessarily impeding economic and recreational opportunities."

    "Impeeding economic and recreational" is exactly what they are doing here. They are the commercial enforcement guys and they need to be backed the hell out of the rec end that they have been steadily encroaching on.

    I'll cut them slack on cross over species like tuna or snapper or grouper as there is a commercial interest there... Not so with billfish... However there is a very heavy economic and recreational impact...

    Now lets get down to "Listening" when we as lure makers approached they did listen. However as we were not the meat men they would npt hear our arguements on their behalf. When Motsko and other tournie directors went at them about the ban they listened. Now we as a group of just plain ol white marlin fishermen can go in and do the same and back them off our game. They don't have the time and manpower to deal with it. Go from that angle.
    Last edited by Deep C; 07-16-2006 at 08:29 PM.

  6. #6
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    LA

    Is the NMFS part of the ACLU????

    TOP

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    It wouold be like the epa emmisions guys teklling Nascar drivers they have to use catalytic converters and keep the spped below seventy to be enviromentally friendly!

    Bottom line is that if you don't voice your opinion and atleast make your voice heard then you may as well have helped them and don't complain as they take more and more...
    In another thread somebody asked if we secceeded from the United States in Florida... The answer is no. Just we the people took a stand...

    I have secceeded from the USA before though. April 23, 1983 ... We the people of the Conch Republic of the Free Florida Keys secceeded from the United States. We declared war fired our one blank shot over the heads of the Border Patrol checkpoint they had placed at the top of the keys in Florida City, then surrendered and demanded foreign aid.
    Ok we didn't get the aid, but we did get them to lose the checkpoint...
    Last edited by Deep C; 07-16-2006 at 09:06 PM.

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    I favor an organization doing their job. They have to grow and improve. It is the norm. Government regulation does this so well in all areas. Grow. Regulating commercial fishing was their set guideline and that is where they should regulate. The regulate word now means anyone on the water fishing will be regulated. Who regulates them? We do as Americans. Don't be fooled to think you need to be regulated in what hook to use. It is easy to think that way and watch. What will become of the new goal this organization seeks is beyond why they are here in the first place. Stop this growth now or cry later. I say don't deter the work they do just keep them focused and help provide the info they need. They are, an info organization, crunching numbers. That is it and no more. Just an organization not a people. Keep that in mind here. There are professional fishermen on this site. Their knowledge is very important in creating this letter. One point I have. When you disturb the revenue in the coastal towns up and down the east coast and jobs relying on that revenue, some one better step up and pull NMFS back in line. These towns and communities are about people. Real people not an organization with a name. It won't take long for a Mayor, Governor, Representative, or Senator to feel this revenue loss. I hope the letter sent from SFC returns a favor to the whole recreational community of fisherman and businessmen. There are many of us and this site will bring many together to keep NMFS on track. NMFS needs good info, not what they have now but up to date good info. How do we as a recreational community get it to them, where do we start? I say our local Government offices.here on the east coast. Many towns live and die by the fishing recreational angler. Lets get on the same page here and put good information to work. Admin has provided us with a medium to do so 24/7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flatbottom
    I favor an organization doing their job. They have to grow and improve. It is the norm. Government regulation does this so well in all areas. Grow. Regulating commercial fishing was their set guideline and that is where they should regulate. The regulate word now means anyone on the water fishing will be regulated. Who regulates them? We do as Americans. Don't be fooled to think you need to be regulated in what hook to use. It is easy to think that way and watch. What will become of the new goal this organization seeks is beyond why they are here in the first place. Stop this growth now or cry later. I say don't deter the work they do just keep them focused and help provide the info they need. They are, an info organization, crunching numbers. That is it and no more. Just an organization not a people. Keep that in mind here. There are professional fishermen on this site. Their knowledge is very important in creating this letter. One point I have. When you disturb the revenue in the coastal towns up and down the east coast and jobs relying on that revenue, some one better step up and pull NMFS back in line. These towns and communities are about people. Real people not an organization with a name. It won't take long for a Mayor, Governor, Representative, or Senator to feel this revenue loss. I hope the letter sent from SFC returns a favor to the whole recreational community of fisherman and businessmen. There are many of us and this site will bring many together to keep NMFS on track. NMFS needs good info, not what they have now but up to date good info. How do we as a recreational community get it to them, where do we start? I say our local Government offices.here on the east coast. Many towns live and die by the fishing recreational angler. Lets get on the same page here and put good information to work. Admin has provided us with a medium to do so 24/7.

    Ok Here is my take on NMFS. I have seen them do some GREAT things. When it comes to getting GOOD data, I don't think they can do it...case in point and my experience with them and how it is done.
    2 years ago in North Carolina to get the NC state into Compliance with NMFS and other states, implementing a salt water fishing license and a "CHARTER FOR HIRE" permit came into effect. For what it is worth, I was on the "stakeholders" committee for "charter boats operators" in my area. I tried to inject some common since into what NMFS wanted to do but I digress in this true story.
    I run 3 different boats of my one as wells a 50' for someone else...so here is the rub. NMFS does a RANDOM survey on ALL charter boats operators as to catch, killed & release, # of passengers and day of week, time and area of fishing, where the charter left from and is only done by the NC state # ( in North Carolina) or by boat Documentation # . (is it me or are others seeing the pattern that I am seeing?)
    This Random survey is done on each boat, Not the Capt. that is running the boat(s) We were told that 1) we would not be called but maybe 4 times during a season and not during the day.
    2) that the survey would take only 2 to 3 mins of our time.
    3) that the data would be used only for stock assessment
    4)that information would not be used to collect information on the charter boat operators
    The List goes on but for now I will hold it at this and let you know how this has affected only me.
    1) Since the second week of May 06 I have been "randomly" picked for this survey every week! Remember it is done by state boat # so if I did not run that boat that week the NMFS did NOT get MY trip data for that week nor the # of people that actually fished and a lot of other data is missed.
    2) Last year the people that collected the data took sometimes 10 to 15 mins. to collect the data. This year a local officer with a little more understanding is doing the calling and has the time down to 3 to 5 mins. He and I have had servile discussions on the improper collection of data and how the data is FLAWED because of it.
    3) If the data is flawed, How can it be used for stock assessment?
    4) With boat state registration # being used how could it not be used to collect the # of trips were are running each year. If the state of Federal government ever looks to reduce the # of charter boat operators (remember what happened in the Bearing Sea) those of us who has more or run more than 1 boat are in for a BAD time.
    I could go on and on about this but I won't waste you time or the boards room with this. My main reason to tell you about this is to inform you how the data they are collecting is bad and the system is flawed. Just remember when you read data coming from the NMFS that this is MY experience with being involved with data collection by them. I can only HOPE other data collected by them is not as flawed as this.
    MirrOlure when big fish count!




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  10. #10
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    Lee, the following are two credible literature reviews on the topic with reasonably good bibliographies. Note the number of studies conducted without a political venue.
    The question of whether circle hooks reduce billfish mortality seems pretty convincing to me.
    Note: I do not support or condem the NMFS position regarding new regs at this time, as I am not fully informed of all the issues.

    http://faculty.forestry.ubc.ca/hinch/Steve_Cooke_Main/PDFS/Circle%20Hook%20Review.pdf#search='circle%20hook%20research'

    http://www.asmfc.org/publications/specialReports/sr77CircleHookDefinition.pdf#search='circle%20hook%20research'

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