Anglers Square off With NMFS

[flatbottom]

I agree there should be a plan to restore stocks of fish. We all agree here, I believe, that longliners hook most of the HMS fish on the coasts of U.S When the longliners represent the most (92%) of stock depletion (their assessment) of White Marlin in a year why would and organization (NMFS) with all the talent and scientific tools at their disposal come up with a plan (regulation) to reduce stock depletion of White Marlin by asserting a circle hook regulation on a group of rec anglers totalling (6%) depletion (their assessment). (2%) error in calculations. I think I know why here from reading farther into this rodeo. Money is the reason not the preservation of the fish stocks but money. Large corporations demanding the shipment of our fish over seas must be a larger (more important than people and jobs in the U.S) tax base at this time (it always has been). Why would an organization such as NMFS in the eyes of American public say circle hooks will solve this stock depletion? Because of money (funding) (special interests groups) (lobbying our government) and calling the shots based on corporate pressure, I might be wrong here but for some reason they look the other way when some one mentions LongLine.

Franky said it right. It worked in Florida with the swordfish stocks. Is the White Marlin so different of a fish. Not in my eyes.

[Deep C]

Thatss it in part... Lets take a closer look. Way small minority groups sewem to have immense pull. Why? Because they get off their dead ass and make deafening amounts of noise. They drown out logic and sway things their way because they get their VOICES heard. We need to stop the infighting and bullshit. We need to get on the same page and stop being such push overs!

The whole point of this thread has little to do with the circles although thats todays debate du jour. It has to do with getting some balls and having some say in our lives. Last time I looked there were stars and bars and fifty stars on our flag. Not the Union Jack! Our forefathers would puke at the apathy we show today. Something is wrong and dneeds fixin. If one of us walks in a NMFS office and says to get off our back as recs and go fix the f*****g problem its one thing. If we get every sportfisherman iout there doing it they will jump!

There is nothing to lose by crawling up their scuppers. So do it!

[frankypettolina]

Beyond the fact that whites and sails are different creatures, here is the bottom line, and I am speaking from first hand expereience, as I have fished circles in CR and MX, and have fished J hooks all over the blue spots that hold billfish on both coasts. Circle hooks are fine for naked bait fishing, whether it is a butterfish for tuna on the hot dog, an eel for a striped bass, or a naked dink ballyhoo for white marlin, or a naked medium bally for a Guatemalan sail. The problem lies in the lure/bait combo. Pay attention here. A friend of mine who has spent the past 2 years fishing almost exclusively in CR told me that they have switched to rubber ballyhoo behind their hawaiin eyes because they have not found a way to effectively rig that combo with a circle. It is not a matter of not trying to learn, it would be like trying to shoot an arrow with 4/5's of a bowstring.... IT DON'T WORK.

Also, I have had the pleasure of speaking at length with Dr. Eric Prince concerning PSAT tagging and the J versus circle mortality when he came to the OC MArlin Club to talk about circle hooks. I don't remember the exact stats, but I do remember my fiancee (who teaches science) saying that she could not believe the flaws in the methodology in the case studies on mortality. BUT THAT ASIDE, there is no question that circles tend to be better for the fish, they just don't apply with the lure/bait combos. And I agree with Deep, gut hooked fish on lure bait combos are less common than on naked baits. With the one exception being small moldcraft chuggers in front of small bally's.

[Deep C]

This a portion of what I sent to Mr. Kelly at NMFS at his request...

" As discussed yesterday there are multiple parts to our concerns regarding the proposals you have laid out. I'll preface the addressing of all of them with that we are astounded at how poor the data collection process you utilize is. I also add that we are not opposed to circle hooks utilized on certain types of baits. In fact I along with many voluntarily use them in conjunction with live baits and what is refered to in the industry as "dink" baits.

Lets start with "Combination Baits" ... I am not refering to ballyhoo rigged with say a sea witch or small skirt over them. I refer to a very popular class of plastic that is used over the larger ballyhoos. In the eastern united states these account for a very large portion of the artificial baits on the market. Tounrament use of this class of product represents a very substantial percentage of overall sales.
"Colored meat" being the sea witches and skirts can be used with circle hooks with not much lost in the percentage of hook ups. "Flavored plastic" being the class of bait I refer to though has an abysmally poor hook up ratio. As a lure maker I try to stay on the cutting edge of the industry and have experimented with dozens of rigging styles involving circle hook designs. We have encountered a zero percent hook up rate using them. Zero for sixty-nine strike with thirty-nine being blue marlin strikes indicates a total ineffectiveness of circle utilized in conjunction with that class. My customers have also indicated a near zero percent hook up ratio using said class of baits.
We looked into and found what the problem is. Upon careful visual scrutiny we could see that the fish would close it's mouth around the bait. As tension was put on the line, the broader head of the lure would force the mouth open. As the broad head of that class of lure forced the wider opening of the mouth the smaller "gap" of the circle design was not able to grab hold of the corner of the mouth. We tried utilizing a wider gap size of circle but the resulting size of the hook not only had the baits run improperly but the increased diameter of the shaft was prohibiting penetration of the jaw utilizing appropriate sized tackle that exerts specific amounts of drag.
With this clearly being the case, I request that NMFS consider classifying combination lure baits having a head diameter over half that of the natural bait or larger classified as artificial and exempt from the circle hook rule. Losing that class of bait would deter many from fishing these events causing the snowball effect we discussed through the various sectors of the economy. Those sectors including but not limited to: Marinas, hotels, restaurants, tackle shops, fuel vendors, ice vendors and the lure manufacturers themselves. "

What they are requesting is that suggestions be sumbitted in writing. Under their guidlines, all written proposals MUST be officially logged in and taken into account during their decision making process. So write... Call... make noise!

[anthony]

what happened to the edit button?? Ill be the first to admit ive never targeted Marlin but i just can see how If another geographical area can catch them on circles why we cant...im sure if everyone was pulling them in our area someone would have a spread dialed in... I see where you are coming from Paul as you make a living from it.. If whites are really in as bad of shape as they say they are we cant just do nothing

In effect, this is doing nothing. Do you really think using circles in tourneys is going to have any kind of impact on billfish stocks at all? Of course not...the few fish that we kill, either on purpose or because the fish did not make it after release is miniscule. It is like a midget pissing on a forest fire. If they want to do something, they should mandate changes in unselective commercial gear like long lines and seine nets...they should stop the over harvest of baitfish stocks....they should put MAJOR pressure on ICCAT to stop the blatant destruction of tuna and billfish stocks in the Med and Asia. Damn it, now I am getting myself all riled up. This is what pisses me off over the whole thing...picking on the recreational guy when we have policed ourselves far more responsibly than the NMFS mandated...and this is what we get, a swift kick in the nuts.