A fellow lobsterman has contacted me in regards to problems associated with his Caterpillar C12, which was placed in service during mid-April 2009. He says the engine ran perfect for the first 300 hours. Since reaching the 300 hour mark, the engine has required new injectors, a replacement cylinder head, and a replacement aftercooler. He reports that the engine continues to smoke excessively, despite attempts by Cat mechanics to resolve the ongoing problem. The engine now is approaching 1,200 hours.
The lobsterman acknowledges that he became aware of 3196 and C12 aftercooler issues through my website, but decided to purchase the engine after assurances by Caterpillar representatives at the Massachusetts Lobstermen's Show that the aftercooler problem had been resolved.
He says the total cost to repower his fishing vessel with the C12 was about $75,000. The frustrated Cat owner describes his new C12 engine as a "nightmare" and is considering replacing it with the "old Volvo" that was in the boat prior to the repower.
Just curious... The C12 is a high performance engine designed for high speed use in fast hulls. This "friend" wouldn't have been trying to use one in a commercial heavy duty work horse application would he?
A 700 horse V-12 lamboghini engine is designed to be placed in an offshore racing configuration where it will do well. However I couldn't see one making a day as a tug or trawler application...
The engine that you describe as a "high performance engine designed for high speed use in fast hulls" is marketed in a 2007 Caterpillar advertisement as; " the ideal engine for 40-60 foot (12-18m) commercial craft; reliable with a proven marine track record.”
Whether or not the engine was used in a high speed hull or a tugboat, there's no reason why an aftercooler should leak at 300 hours. Engine application has little to do with defective aftercoolers.
This particular individual spent $75,000 to repower his vessel based upon assurances by Caterpillar representatives that the engine he planned to purchase was suitable for the purpose for which he intended to use it. Caterpillar reps are well aware of the C12 track record - 80 to 90 percent failure rate on about 4,800 engines in the field. The majority of these engines were in recreational craft.
In my opinion, the only type of craft these engines belong in are the ones they were originally designed for - the ones with four wheels that roll down the highway. Andreas Renschler, director of DaimlerChrysler's Truck Group would probably disagree with me on that point. At the 61st Commercial Vehicles Show, Renschler commented about Caterpillar's 07' engines that were tested in his company's test chambers. "Not one of Caterpillar's engines has been able to make over 5,000 miles." As a result, "we haven't sent a single one to customers for over-the-road testing." According to Renschler, Caterpillar's engines were failing after only a few miles.
He is right about that. I have a friend in the trucking business he wont buy the Cat engine anymore.{C-12} It doesnt last like the Mack is what he says. Too expensive to fix and unreliable. Im quoting him and he owns about 75 trucks on the road.
I'm not debating in the least that their marketing of the c-12 power plants in a commercial capacity is very misleading but researching a product past "sales pitches" is equally important. I can't tell you why they preform so poorly in commercial applications versus go fast, I'm not a mechanic, but they do.
There are no fewer than a dozen sport boats in my area with thousands of hours each on theirs with no issues. Then there are those with them in "work horse" applications where they don't work at all.
Engines through the entire market right now suck. I look at qsm11 that are all over the place for reliability. Some going strong for thousands of hours some blown up litterally in the box. Man? You mean "Mangrenades"...MTU disasters left and right.
The engines I run now are of the finicky type. They hate "load". Yes even good ol GM screwed the pooch with this series. I have to watch my weight to the last ounce and adjust RPM to the last digit to keep them running right. 200 under is recommended? My ass! I'm 400+ under and running 86% so I have to pull em back even farther if I intend on getting any more life out of them...
Aftercoolers load up under "load" even mine do. It doesn't take much. We have a huge fish box. 500 pounds of fish and ice and my engines hate it. You wouldn't think that only 500 pounds in the stern would throw them off in a 34000 pound rig but its night and day. Hell I can tell when my 130 pound boss is sitting on the aft cushion set.
Yes there has to be better design but the tollerances these days are such a give and take if they do one thing it throws the balence off in another direction...
For what my humble opinion is worth, I agree with Storm. If its a CAT its a DOG. The only thing Cats are good for in my opinion is digging. Take them out the dirt and well...
Mangrenades hah Deepy. Those were the old mechanical engines from way back in the last century. Today's Mans are the tits. Really Deepster, all this coming from a guy that has Peninsulars in his own boat and runs DD 6/92s.
Me, I"ll take Cummins, Man, or Lugger and not necessarily in that order. For a low RPM work horse application though, I do like Lugger. No I am not a commercial fisherman, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn.
hate to sound like a idiot, but they are all junk and they all blow up! the only difference is in the support you get when it happens, and believe me it will happen. we have caterpillar engines and the reason we have them is the worldwide support we get with cat. we have had engines overhauled in our backyard of the house in the bahamas by cat and techs fly in on more then one occasion in the islands to keep us running I am very impressed with the level of service we have recieved from cat! with that being said we have never owned the disposable c7 c9 or c12 series of engines, as i wouldnt own any engine without replaceable cylinder sleeves.
I'm waiting right now for a spot in our drydock. There would have been a space open but instead theres a pair of 100 hour old common rails out of a Bertram. Change the name but they're still mangrenades...
Pick on the peninsulars if you want but they've got 5000 behind them and they were never meant to be diesels... (Chevy 396) But maybe theres something to em... Seing as how Uncle Sam has been running em in their Hummers since they went on line...
They will become yanmar 240's before long though...
As for the Jimmies, that 625 package seldom makes it past 1500 hours and usually much less. I just turned 2300 so maybe just maybe I'm doing something right...
The repower on the "Rybovike" is still up in the air as to what to get... Like I mentioned earlier I have seen QSM11 dead straight from the box. I'm looking right now as I type this at dead Mans... And yes cat has issues too. Yanmar has dipped into my horsepower range with a contender but I want a little time out there to get straight feedback.
So they all have issues... Every last one...
I know several Vikings running Mans and I'm sorry I have yet to see them miss a lick. If fact, I have been fishing on one for the last several seasons. So, sorry mangrenades I don't see it. Like I said, that was a last century thing, but you are old and sometimes the years run together.
I do; however, remember this certain gentleman that had all kinds of problems a few years back with a set of Peninsulars / gas engine blocks. Oh, sorry Deep was that you?
Let's face it Storm, some guys just bleed yellow. You can't tell them Cats are problematic.
The pair in "MY" yard spot are less than 110 hrs old. Both sick one busted all the way... Our sistership had a pair of older ones and they popped at 800 but as you note those ones were yesteryear- the other pair isn't... Several of the Vikes we looked at had em. One in Miami that looked promishing and another with fresh power in Jacksonville. That one popped a bearing during sea trial... So theres three fresh ones right off the top of my head that busted.
I'd love a pair of hot dog common rails and get my 32 cruise. They fit like a glove and one of the options from vike. The other option from Vike (largest builder of this class boat) and most common choice for power is the C12 Acert... But I have to have reliable and there is no reliable on the market at this time...
As for the issues with the P engines... Yep I had a hell of a time with a bad crank and the rep0lacement was worse... Like I said I have no love for those pieces of shit, for my GM pieces of shit or any of the new pieces of shit on the market...
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Really Deepster, all this coming from a guy that has Peninsulars in his own boat and runs DD 6/92s.
