Out of control gill netting

[bad_angler]

Hi,

I saw this article this morning about the redfish catch being down 75% in parts of North Carolina where indiscriminant use of gill nets has begun to take a heavy toll on game fish species. There a sad video accompanying the article of a gillnet full of dead redfish and black drum. Watching the video will make you sick..you can hear the disgust in the captain documenting the kill. See this LINK.

And the fine for this slaughter was $35. I thought you guys would be angry too.

[rich]

ha ha the funny thing is that is a recreational net. Hence the Pink cork. No commercial guy would have made that set because he doesn't want to lose his catch that is money out of his pocket. I agree we should cut out all of the recreational gill netting. Which that guy was well within his legal limits on fish. As you saw most were still alive so they were not wasted.

Also, I red the article in Marlin magazine where the guy from the CCA said that there is no law on leaving gill nets bullshit. (same photo in the article as this one) The fish were still alive as the video shows so he didn't leave it there an abundance of time.

Also, the guy in the video is talking about how weak the drum population is. I have seen and heard of more big red drum in the last 2 years than i ever have. They had to grow up from somewhere. My old man got in a school of 15-25 lbs fish the other day on light tackle and said he caught more than he cared to so he left them still catching fish. I just dont get the whole red drum shortage. The more I see of them the more I hear they are being pushed into extinction.

[flatbottom]

I saw that report also. Rich maybe they are talking about juvenile fish. We had a similar event with rock fish up this way. The large fish were plentiful. There were years of young stock weak in numbers across some years. A fix could result in less fish for all and strict size limitations. I hope that is not the answer or the problem in NC. Maybe more data is needed before the "sky is falling" reports and rumours flood the.

Thanks for the vid and info.

[captcl]

I saw that report also. Rich maybe they are talking about juvenile fish. We had a similar event with rock fish up this way. The large fish were plentiful. There were years of young stock weak in numbers across some years. A fix could result in less fish for all and strict size limitations. I hope that is not the answer or the problem in NC. Maybe more data is needed before the "sky is falling" reports and rumours flood the.

Thanks for the vid and info.

Flat, over here in Md. they call that the young of the index. probably parallell or similar results for Del. There has not been a really strong 'year class" that i have heard of for maybe the past 3-5yrs.. so while stripers seem to be doing ok maybe there is a downside. I agree totally with you on your take a look before the "sky is falling " approach. Don't know if anyone is doing a year class study on drum(red or black) the usual wheez is the $$ are'nt there . That net in the video had some fish but i would'nt say it was the motherload of sets. Interesting thread.

[Honey Hole]

Here in VA, the red drum population is better than it's been in years. Does it compare to the 60's... no. This is evidenced by the range of the fish. Back then they'd show in numbers as far north as the Delaware Bay, simply because there was not enough forage food to support the mass numbers of fish as they migrated north in the spring.

I've tagged ~150 pups this year (between 17 and 24 inches), and have been tagging Reds for the past 6-7 years. I can tell you that this year's pup population is better than the past two years, and probably equal to the population 3 years ago. I can regularly go out and catch 30 fish in a few hours (pending tide stage)... so, MY assesment is that the younger fish are plentiful where I fish. I'm pretty sure this has something to do with VA's regulation that no fish over 26" can be kept. More breeders, more pups.

I AM CONCERNED that while the population is increasing, the forage food is depleting (read this as OMEGA PROTIEN's menhaden boats devistating the menhaden population in the bay).

NETTING: My family has worked on the water for generations. I was talking to my cousin the other day about his spot catches. He told me he pulled his nets that he usually fishes on the bayside of the lower Eastern Shore because of the number of Pups showing up. Does he take a financial hit, YES. BUT, he's more concerned with killing the Pups than he is with netting Spot. I'll agree, the recreational gill netters are a little less concerned than the commercial guys (who ALWAYS take the bad wrap).

[bad_angler]

Hi Guys,

Rich, North Carolina SeaGrants say the impact is based on where you are in North Carolina, the type of net and the method of use.

In the Newport Area it's widely believed the redfish population is impacted by flounder gillnets. NC Seagrants studies show that's not really the case. The bycatch is incidental. But in the Shallotte area the mortality is higher . Quoting from the second study, "One important finding from this research is that catch rates and acute (at-the-boat) mortality rates of red drum caught in southeastern North Carolina are highly variable depending on the fishery, fishing method and season. The side-set method typical of the small mesh RCGL, trout and mullet fisheries resulted in low acute mortality rates. The use of anchored gill nets set during the day or overnight, typical of the estuarine flounder fishery and occasionally the trout fishery, resulted in higher acute mortality rates.". And "Researchers state that this study shows few deleterious effects on red drum stock from the mullet, small mesh RCGL and run-around trout fishery, but higher mortalities with the flounder fishery and with anchored trout nets."

The Newport River Research is here.

The Southeastern /Shalotte study is here

[h2orowe]

I recently had a conversion with the biologist that is in charge of Red Drum studies and makes most reccomendations to the higher ups about the drum for NC. He said our numbers were great (now) and we were discussing making a change to the law about being able to keep one or more over the current size limit but he said they couldn't figure out a way to do it without breaking one of their laws. There is something (and I don't remember what he said) that prevents it.
I don't really understand why he said they couldn't do it without lifting the bann completely but he knows their by-laws and stuff better than I do.

[gottaflylee]

I was not going to say much about this but I think I will add a couple of things.
Red Drum are a schooling fish and the Puppy Drum schools can be hit hard with nets as well as hook and line...as the study said larger marsh nets like flounder nets have the hardest hit on them.
Ok, when I started guiding in my area, ( Wrightsville Beach, NC ) there were 3 of us doing it. Now there are about 150 full and part time guides. Now I am going to use some, what I deem to be realistic numbers to get my point across and what I'm talking about is only for my area. In NC we are allowed to keep 1 Red Drum pre person pre day. Out of the 150 or so guides lets say we have 15 to 20 on a given day, Red Drum fishing and out of that number 5 guides are keeping 1 fish for each of there 4 anglers, which = 20 fish pre day. Now remember I said that Red Drum are schooling fish and most of the time when you find one fish there are 10 to 20 fish in that area. Now say that 2 out of the 5 guides are fishing the same area and the same school of fish. In one day the 2 guides remove 8 fish from the school...in 2 days, 16 fish are removed out of a school of 20 or so. Now add on the recreational fishermen and see what you got...
It is not as bad for areas like Pamlico Sound, Delaware Bay, Chesapeake Bay as well as other big bodies of water, but when you narrow down the marine habitat; how you take care of you fishery changes as well as how you need to look at it.
Now before we try to knock the commercial guy out of his way of making a living, lets stop the commercial recreational fishermen with the nets first and see what happens. If this were the case, Gordon Churchill would have never made that video.
Last I would like to say that I am NOT for the proposed increase for Red Drum in NC for the recreational or commercial fishermen as far as the fish stocks stand now...at least for my area and keep the minatory net attendance all nets as well as Flounder which seems to be doing the most damage to the Red Drum fishery...next!

[bad_angler]

Hey Gottafly, I concur with much of your post.

I saw that video and I thought what a waste. It appears there are problems in some areas and it depends on the type of net and how it's deployed. Also from your post you can see there are many more guides on the water that in the past. I too want to eat seafood caught in the US and not from China.

While looking around for information on the gillnet bycatch I came across this article from the mobile register. They compare the fishing waters of Alabama with the waters of Florida after the gillnet ban. It's apparent there's an impact on some species because some in Florida are thriving after the ban while a couple of miles away Alabama species catches are way down. read this post if of interest.

[captcl]

Lee I have to agree with you. As a guide/charter service here in md. coastal bays we don't see nets like this very often or at all let alone decent amounts of drum! Having moved/switched from the mid chesapeake to OCMD and fishing coastal bays,10 years ago it's a learning experience that never ends.Having fished all my life the increase in the number of anglers(fishing pressure)is amazing! The "greed factor" seems to increase every year as well. I was in on the ground floor when we opened back up the stripers here in md. in 1990 and watched as many recs rushed to get a guides lisc to increase their limit of keepers(claiming they were charter operators). I get alot of guff at times when I say everyone is part of the problem and the solution! Recs operating like commrcial fishers i beleive is more widespread than most people think. Thanks for the info on the Penn slammers Capt Lee, I'm going to try a pair of them.