Swamp Collie or Bruiser?

[Capt-D]

After the recent loss of my li'l buddy of 13 years, a awesome cat that I have had longer than my wife, I have decided that in the next year or so I want to get a puppy. Since I have also found in the last year that I like duck and goose hunting, i have decided that I want a bird dog. I am tossed between chessies and Goldens. No offense to any lab owners, but it just seams that everyone has a lab.

I have grown up around chessies (and various hounds) since they were a staple in my grampa's house as long as I could remember. I know they can be stubborn, but also know they can be extremly loyal and somewhat friendly if socialized from the start.

I have little experience with goldens other than a couple of friends that have one. From what I can see is that most goldens goal is to 100% please thier owner.

I have read good traits (and a couple of bad )about both breeds as a gun dog. I have heard that chessies are harder to train but have a hellava good instinct to do the job in all conditions. I have heard that goldens can be great gun dogs, but is harder to find a golden breeder that produces strictly gun dogs cause of their popularity as a house dog.

Whichever breed I choose, I want it to be an intergral part of my family and want it to be good around small children since my son is 2 and I have a second one due in October.

tell me your thoughts and experiences good and bad!

-D

[BTH284]

From my experiences hunting over both breeds that were friends of mine dogs. I would go with the chessie. Especially where your talking about hunting. I could see a golden bawk after a few retrieves where ice and high surf was involved. Long, thin wispy coat vs. the eastern shore afro ................no contest. I don't think the chessie would be a problem is socialized around the kids from puppyhood on. The sedge colored (blonde) chessie are beautiful. A lil smelly but great dogs.

Now, the golden is a great breed. But more suited for the not so extremem conditions IMO. There may be some others on here that would disagree.

[clt_capt]

Get a Lab...

Mine;

[ncfish]

Since I duck and dove hunt, and a little quail, and have a couple dogs maybe I can give another suggestion...Boykin Spaniel. SC state dog. Unfortunately I don't have any pics on this computer, but they are about the size of a beagle, dark brown and typically curly hair. Mix of Chesapeke Bay Ret, cocker and some spaniel breed.

Super-smart little dogs, LOVE water, can handle high heat (nc dove hunts), great around my 2 year old, small enough that my wife can handle her...and as much hunt drive as my yellow lab. But, if you're hunting really heavy water, might not be the best choice. I typically won't hunt mine when it's really cold (since I have another option) but I know people that do. But, considering you hunt at best three months a year and have to live with the dog all the time, the Boykin's a good option.

All that aside, the best advice I can give you is know the breeder and the parent dogs if at all possible. I've had blacks and chocolates that couldn't find their ass with both hands, a Golden that was a great pet but no hunt instinct, and a cross-eyed black lab that I adopted that was a whole other story...

The two dogs I have now both came from hunting parents, breeders that weren't just selling pups but were actually trying to make good dogs. The lab has as much drive as any dog I've ever seen, and the Boykin is as smart as any dog I've ever seen, both have excellent hunting skills, trainable, healthy...no substitute for knowing what you're getting, irregardless of the breed.

And with gun dogs, either be prepared to invest some time in training, or some money. I've trained these dogs but I've also paid trainers in the past. Just make sure the dog has been working before going to the field or all kinds of bad things can happen. And EASE them in to the water and guns- probably the dumbest thing I've ever seen is someone throwing a dog off a pier, or shooting next to a green dog and then spending months undoing the damage. And socialize them- I don't think there'd be an issue with the chessie or any other breed kids if they were from a good line and properly socialized.

My .02

[Capt-D]

ncfish. Great info and I have already looked into a breeder in va for the chesses

http://www.confederatekennels.com/ is the one that has impressed me the most.

Funny story about rushing them into the field. I have a buddy of mine in southern Md that got a lab and put in the work and trained him himself. the dog had great instincts and control. His only problem is that he introduced the dog to goose hunting a little early. on the first trip out like the second retrieve the dog went after a crippled bird that wasn't quite ready to cooperate. the goose turned around and started bitting "Charon" the dog. Well Charon, appropretly named, decided that it was best to bite the head off of the goose. Well my buddy thought it was the funniest thing and mistakenly praise the dog. from that point on every cripple came in with no head. That bad habit turned into all retrieved geese coming back headless, crippled or not. My buddy has yet to break him of the problem. Needless to say, Charon, doesn't get out hunting much anymore.

Tell me more about the boykins

-D

[ncfish]

from www.boykinspaniel.org

The Boykin Spaniel
written by Mike Creel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Boykin Spaniel was first bred by South Carolina hunters during the 1900's to provide the ideal dog for hunting ducks and wild turkeys in the Wateree River Swamp. Hunters on South Carolina's Wateree River needed a small rugged dog compactly built for boat travel and able to retrieve on land and water. In those days wagons, wooden boats and trains afforded hunters access to the game rich corridors along the river. But boat travel limited what hunters could carry. The typical heavyweight retriever was a drawback in a craft already loaded with men, guns, provisions and other gear.

On the Wateree River in the early part of this century hunters often used a take apart "section boat." Held together by bolts to form a large craft, the three sections with seats removed could be "nested" to fit neatly into a wagon or train's baggage car. Hunters also used sections as one-man boats just large enough for one person and a compact retriever.

L. W. "Whit" Boykin (1861-1932), a planter, land appraiser and well-known sportsman of the Boykin community just outside Camden, South Carolina, along with his kinsmen the Canteys, experimented with many breeds to resolve the problems posed by their Wateree hunting trips. With selective breeding and a little luck, Boykin developed a small multipurpose retriever now known as the Boykin spaniel.

The first Boykin spaniel, or the precursor of today's breed, was reportedly a small, stray spaniel type dog that befriended a banker walking from his home to the First Presbyterian Church in Spartanburg, South Carolina around 1905-1910. Alexander L. White (1860-1942) liked the little dog and took it home. After the dog showed some aptitude for retrieving, White sent the dog called "Dumpy" to his longtime friend and hunting partner Whit Boykin. In Boykin's hands the little stray developed into a superb turkey dog and waterfowl retriever. This dog became the foundation stock for the Boykin spaniel. Other ancestors are reported to be the Chesapeake Bay retriever, springer spaniel, cocker spaniel, and the American water spaniel.

Today this little brown retriever can be found on hunts and in homes across America. Stamina in hot weather and eagerness to please make this dog a favorite in the dove fields, but Boykins have retained their spaniel flushing abilities and readily adapt to a variety of upland game hunting including pheasant, quail and grouse. An aptitude for water retrieving combined with their compact size assures these dogs a place in the duck boats and blinds as well. Boykins have often been described as "the dog that doesn't rock the boat." They are even effective in deer driving or in tracking wounded deer. Like many of the sporting breeds, Boykin spaniels make the transition from hunting companion to family pet easily. Boykin spaniels are true dual-purpose hunting dogs. END

The boykin website has a lot of good info and they can point you to breeders (there aren't a lot and all have a waiting list, interview process, etc). Although they're not AKC registered, most people register with the society and they have field trials, hip and eye checks, etc. A great place to see them is the Southeastern Wildlife Exposition in Charleston, but unfortunately it's in Feb. Probably some owner groups in your area too though. Pretty little dogs

That's hilarious about the goose-dog...I've made mistakes with mine that have taken months to undo, fortunately not biggies, just handling stuff. Teaching a dog is fairly easy (I think of it more as leading, the good dogs I've had know instinctively what to do, you just have to show how you'd prefer it done), un-training is a handful.

They can be a pain in the ass, but man is it great when you shoot and your dog makes the retrieve...like hitting a grand slam! I get more birds with the dogs too- last year me and a buddy were sitting in a swamp blind, mid-afternoon shooting the breeze when my lab starting acting up...whining, shaking, restless...wtf tucker, sit blah blah blah, I mean, he was only a year old. Finally I got smart enough to look out in the spread...two woodies had snuck in, two shots, two retrieves. I don't think I've ever seen such smugness in a dog FOR DAYS. His freakin' head hardly fit in the truck. Boykin does the same thing in the dove field all the time. I'm hard of hearing, so even if someone yells about a bird behind me I usually don't hear what they said, but I can watch her eyes and be pretty well set.

Like I said, they're good dogs, but at the end of the day for hunting or behavior I don't see nearly as much difference in the breed as I do the bloodline and breeding. Most of the stereotypes you hear for dogs are just that imo. I've seen *****cat chessies and goldens that will bite like hell, go figure.
Good luck-

[Dave Sikorski]

Goldens are great dogs, but like you said, they aren't bred for the field very much anymore. It also seems like they have some health problems.

I've met a few Chessies that were a little aggressive, but I find that is a trait that is being bred out of many of them. Like you said, it also has a lot to do with how you socialize them.

I've hunted over some Chessies that were just amazing hunters. My buddy Jeremy has a pup that was in his first season this year, and you would have thought he was in the prime of his career. Well mannered and focused, and just good to be around.

I have a Yellow Female now, but plan on getting a female Chessie next. Females are better IMO, especially with children.

http://www.nomadkennels.com/litters.htm Here's an MD breeder with a litter now.

-D

[Sea Draggin]

Along the same lines, the English Setters are great family dogs that want to do NOTHING but hunt. This one loves the water, my other one doesn't. She would rather hunt than eat, sleep or anything.

They really are considered field dogs, but can be easily trained to do anything, including turkey hunt. I don't know if they would be the best duck dogs, but I just enjoy talking about a totally underrated breed. Plus they smell good and have fur like a rabbit.

One of mine on point...just a robin though.

[anthony]

Dennis,

You know I am partial to labs but since you aren't interested....I think the Chessie would make the best hunting dog. Big, strong and full of drive. But even if socialized and it does well around the kids I would be a little wary of how it would behave around strangers or other dogs. The goldens are just the opposite (for the most part). Great family dogs but not as driven. I guess everythings a compromise....good luck on whatever breed you choose.

[jmercer]

Capt-D
Hey I fished with you on the Run-off! Capt-D as Dave said earlier I have a chessie, actually my second one. My first one was five when he got hit by a car, God is not expose to give a great dog like that on the first go around. Anyway my male now is 1 1/2 he has retreived over 603 birds this year.
Any dog will turn out like the way you wanted it, with what you put in it. If you are not a professional trainer and your not, look at what dog is going to have a little more desire to get after it for hunting. I can only speak for chessies, I know a chessie would protect your kids, dogs and house, without a doubt in my mind . They are not mean, but they tend to look krazy with their eyes. With chessies you have to social them more then you would with a Golden. That means getting around other dogs when their younger. A female seems to be more protective of the two. I have two breeders for you, one where I got my first dog and the second is where my first dog's father came from. Another thing, chessies want alot of loving and petting, seems like their bred needs alot of attention but in return they will serve you until the end. Another note, good chessies are not cheap.

sheppards cheseapeakes
Chesabar cheseapeakes

good luck
Jeremy