Question for the retriever guys

[N2theBlue]

You need to complete force fetch. I used to run my labs competitively I did all my own training, and held my own against the pros.

Force fetch IS the foundation to everything else. Force fetch can be hard on the faint of heart, but it needs to be done correctly and completely, whenits doen the dogs knows that you are not requesting that they do something, but commanding.

Thier attitude will probably go down during FF, but it come right back once you are done.

Force fetch was complete, but I don't think she had proper introduction to birds. That seems to be the issue. She was with him for 10 months, but the first three barely anything got accoplished. She was VERY stubborn, and didn't take well to training at all. Wanted very little to do with it.

[N2theBlue]

I agree about the force fetch process not being complete and not a proper introduction to birds/feathers. I will be more than happy to explain if you would like to discuss further.

Force fetch is the hardest thing a dog will ever go through. I usually wait well after 6 months to start and "take their temperature" with it. If they gradually pick it up, then proceed. If they "bauk" then back off till a month or so later. Some dos will not accept this until they are 9 months or so. Every dog is different just like people.
She started at nine months. Was VERY stubborn. The trainer was not sure she'd even make a dog for the first three months, but after 9 he felt comfortable giving her back to us with the basics learned

With both my dogs, this process lasted realistically a good month or so from start to finished force when they stop "bauking". It seems like they will never get it and one day it just happens. That 10 minutes a day, 2x each day for a month straight. Do this somewhere there are no distractions and this will allow you to focus on the dog and vice versa. Wooden dowel with X shapes each end work great and will not the dowel slide out of the dogs mouth. Once perfected move on to bumpers, then birds etc like JRJB spoke of.
He did ear pinch, then stick force, then collar force. I did not have her collar on her when this ocurred, that will be my next step

20 minutes to hold is not long enough IMO. A handled to retrieve and blind retriever to get a wounded bird could last well past 20 minutes.
That was just a random number. I 've never asked her to hold a bumper for that long. I have no idea how long she would actually do it

Plus, when dog is forced fetched properly, they will fetch and hold anything you give to them for as long as YOU want them too.

They eventually learn to turn off the ear pinch or toe pinch pain and figure out it is easier to hold than to get pinched. Lots of praise and positive reinforcement is very important in this stage of training.

I even only do easy bumper and dead bird marks while force fetching a dog during the other training times.IE Singles and short marks. You know your dog better than anyone and will see their spirits actually get down during the FF phase of training. When this happens, back off and do something training wise they like and have confidence in.

Like I said, I will be more than happy to go into more detail if you would like. I love to see someone fully committed to helping their dog become an accomplished retriever.

I don't really have the time to get her to a high level, and don't need her to. All I am looking for is for her to sit still beside me and go get a duck that drops in the pond. I don't go down east, and truthfully with my work schedule I only get to go a few times a year anyway. Thats why i sent her to a trainer. I work nights from 5pm to 4 am, 6 days a week. The dog is actually with my dad in NC while I am working here in SC. I am looking for things he could do with her. He can take a dead duck and make her hold it in her mouth to get used to it. He can use the collar to make her fetch it. But he's handicapped and can't go through the whole force breaking process over again, especially knowing how difficult it was for the professional to do it. (besides my mom would blow a gasket if he tried to do that in the yard)

She is 2 yrs old now, and not a very mature two years old at that. The trainer wanted her for at least 3 more months and preferable 6, but frankly I couldn't afford it, and as long as I don't have to go get a boat or wade in the pond I'm satisfied. I would like her to deliver to hand, but if this is the best I'm gonna get I'll deal with it.

[fish4fun]

N2theBlue - I'm thinking with some more experience she will get the hang of it and will be fine. You may want to try giving Pat Nolan a call or email. He is an excellent trainer located in Maryland (ponderosakennels.com). I've also heard Woody from Twin Lakes Kennels is very good. They may be able to give you a few pointers over the phone.

[fish4fun]

We've had young labs struggle with large geese. Water retrieve is not a problem but would drop at land like you experienced. When field hunting they would run in circles, after multiple hunts they figured it out.

netman9 - Would you give some more insight on your dog(s) transition to retrieving geese in the field. How many hunts/attempts did it take? Did you do anything to help the process during the moment? I've got an 11 mth old lab that I'm working through the same issues on retrieving geese in the field.

[BTH284]

I understand. Did not mean anything negative by my comments. I apologize if it came across that way. Good to see you are going to keep working with her. They are a great companion to have by your side.

[N2theBlue]

I understand. Did not mean anything negative by my comments. I apologize if it came across that way. Good to see you are going to keep working with her. They are a great companion to have by your side.

I appreciate all the help from you guys, and if I wasn't working so much or if dad was healthy we'd definitely put it to use.

I'm trying to find a job that i don't have to ask off on saturdays but its tough right now!

[Twin Rivers]

I may be coming into this a little late, but it sounds as if she needs a little touch up on the force fetch. You might try putting a dummy down in front of your dog and commanding fetch. When you say fetch hit her with the collar, tell her to hold and if she tries to drop it tap her with the collar. I 'm no expert, I have talked to alot of trainers as I try to fix my dogs hard mouth.

[N2theBlue]

I may be coming into this a little late, but it sounds as if she needs a little touch up on the force fetch. You might try putting a dummy down in front of your dog and commanding fetch. When you say fetch hit her with the collar, tell her to hold and if she tries to drop it tap her with the collar. I 'm no expert, I have talked to alot of trainers as I try to fix my dogs hard mouth.

That's not a problem, but she probably should have the whole routine gone through again with a dead bird. When I'm home for christmas i'm gonna try and see if she'll force fetch the bird after a little collar stimulation. She will get a bumper no problem.

[Bert Rodgers]

That's not a problem, but she probably should have the whole routine gone through again with a dead bird. When I'm home for christmas i'm gonna try and see if she'll force fetch the bird after a little collar stimulation. She will get a bumper no problem.

I would definately reconsider this approach. More often than not adding electricity to the mix with a dog that is shy of birds will make the problem worse.

The method I mentioned before works.

Good luck
Bert