Anyone Use Crossbow's?,

[seapower]

Well I bought one right after Thanks Giving. Can't use a regular bow because my wrist's (way too much wrench work) just can't take it. I bought a basic nothing fancy Excaliber (Phoenix), that thing is fast and accurate. Got it primarily for hog hunting, haven't used it for them yet (hopefully in March). I've only shot at one critter with it, that deer is in the freezer. I know some "purist's" don't appreciate a crossbow. Guess I'm lucky I'm not a purist! Between my handgun habit and now the crossbow, I've got my wife convinced that I'm gonna save a fortune in rifle ammo!!!! Frank

[clt_capt]

Just think how much you save by not printing photos

I haven't used a crossbow in years, but it was a pretty useful tool when I did...

[SportFishStaff]

Frank as we have spoken before I'm with you and am in the market myself for a crossbow.

Hers an article I found, an opinion piece. I think as the author points out unless you are shooting a recurve or long bow, technology has come into play.
Tim





Bow versus Crossbow

Bow hunters say the crossbow is evil and gives an unfair advantage, but what is the real lowdown on the two?



I had only just stepped onto the archery club range when a very polite range master explained to me that they did not allow my type at their range. I assumed that it was a membership issue and asked about the price to join. He explained that I would not be able to join. I thought for a moment that maybe it was a racial thing, but when I looked at the line of shooters I saw a classic southwestern mix. So what was it?HunterUltra SL™

The range master continued politely, trying his best to explain a difficult point I had yet to understand. "It's not you sir, it's your crossbow. We don't allow crossbows on this range."

Although I was stunned, I maintained composure and listened to his well rehearsed reasons. Being new to archery at that time I accepted what he told me until I could research it on my own.

It was not long before I was hearing the same anti-crossbow propaganda from a number of other archers, although most were far less polite about it. Many actually bordered on real hostility. I was surprised. Was I still living in the dark ages where crossbows were considered evil? I was not, but I had just met a handful of people that probably still held a grudge against Galileo.

Now, all this is not to meant as a slam against archery enthusiasts. These were simply people who lacked any first hand knowledge and were repeating the misinformation they had been told at one time or another. As a whole, I have found bow hunters to be a conscienscous group and the best representatives of hunters as a whole. Bow hunting is damn hard and takes a commendable amount of discipline to do.

The following is a list of complaints/misinformation commonly propagated on the subject:

1) Crossbows are too powerful and therefore an unfair advantage when hunting.

2) The crossbow is so powerful that the bolts destroy bales of hay used as backstops.

3) The trigger on a crossbow gives it an unfair advantage over bows which have to be drawn and fired.

4) The use of telescopic sights violates the purity of archery as a means of hunting.

5) Crossbow hunters shoot like they have a rifle and negligently injure their prey rather than the clean-kill seen by conventional archers

6) Crossbows have far greater range that a bow. If we allow them to be used during archery season, the game would be harvested at dangerous levels.

Let's cover some of these modern myths about the two by first interjecting my own underlying belief: Unless you are shooting a primitive bow (i.e.: longbows, recurves, no pulleys, etc) you have no place to make any of the allegations listed above. The guys like Fred Bear who went out into the wild and brought back a dead grizzly with nothing more than a 45lb recurve are the guys that really get my respect. The modern bow hunter (or crossbow hunter for that matter) carries afield a weapon made from space age polymers, pulleys, and advanced sights. Hardly the stuff of Robin Hood.

Let's go through these myths point by point:

1) Crossbows are too powerful and therefore an unfair advantage when hunting.

This statement is only partially true. Most crossbows on the market are of at least 150lb draw strength. Most bows on the market can be set as high as 60-75lb draw. However, the power stroke (distance the string travels from rest to full draw) on a crossbow is usually little better than 14". On a bow, the power stroke can be as much as 31". It is during the power stroke that an arrow gains its velocity. It is pretty easy to see how these two factors balance each other out. What it really comes down to is how heavy is your arrow (bolt) and how fast is it traveling?

Currently, the fastest crossbows on the market throw a factory arrow at 340fps. This speed can be matched by a number of bows on the market currently. The only advantage there would be the difference in price (favoring the crossbow.) A bow fires a heavier arrow with better terminal ballistics out past 50 yards.

Two other serious considerations to be taken into account is that the crossbow makes more noise when fired and follow up shots are slower. But, the crossbow can be bench-rested on any handy tree or blind while the shooter takes as long as he needs to make the shot.

Firing 14" bolts with field points from a Barnett RC150 yielded an average of 6" penetration against compressed cardboard. Compound bows, depending on arrow weight, will achieve roughly the same penetration against similar media. No advantage either way here.






fletching_bolts.jpg (66604 bytes) Crossbow bolts are nothing more than cut down arrows with a flat nock. One benefit of crossbows is that they do not require angled fletches to spin stabilize them during flight. While this makes fletching easier, it compromises the bolt's terminal ballistics out past 50 yards. This bolt is being fletched in alignment with the broadheads.



2) The crossbow is so powerful that the bolts destroy bales of hay used as backstops.

This statement is also founded in a certain measure of truth. Actually bolts do no more damage to bales of hay and straw than do arrows. They don't even penetrate any deeper, but what happens is that the shorter bolt (14-20") will literally disappear into a bale whereas a 30" arrow would still have its shaft protruding for the archer to retrieve their projectiles. So what happens? Crossbow shooters (who lack respect for the archery club's range) tear into the bale trying to recover their bolts (that they were told not to use on bales of hay in the first place.) Then the next day when the range master comes in he finds a demolished bale on his range and rightly curses crossbow users.

Bottom line: If you find an archery club that will let you shoot on their range, bring your own target. Ethafoam targets for crossbows are considerably thicker in order to stop the bolt before it over penetrates and shears off the fletchings. Ripped up bales are not a crossbow issue, but rather an issue of rude visitors. It's understandable why range masters would despise crossbows.

Carbon fiber arrows and bolts make a big difference in weight. However, too light an arrow/bolt will rob you of critical penetration when hunting. Expanding broadheads fly truer than conventional broadheads. Also, the folding broadheads tend to be easier to resharpen and do not need to be aligned with the fletchings.

Kids really have it made these days. When I was a kid if you wanted a bow you had to go find just the right tree and start whittlin'... Nowadays parents have a wide choice of beginner bows including several compound bows. This Barnett Lil' Sioux retails for about $24.99. Miniature compound bows are also available as well.



3) The trigger on a crossbow gives it an unfair advantage over bows which have to be drawn and fired.

Were it that crossbows had a monopoly on triggers I would be forced to agree with that statement. But the real truth is that triggers are available (and widely used) for bows. In fact, the bow hunter gets a way better deal out of it all.

Click here to shop for archery products at Sportsmansguide.com!Think about it, with a crossbow if you want a trigger job you either have to find someone who will even do the work (if you can...it will be expensive) or send it back to the factory (if they will do the work--most won't.) This would involve permanent modifications to your crossbow.

But with a bow, there are dozens of triggers available and most cost almost nothing compared to a crossbow trigger job. Better yet, many are adjustable. Even if you don't like the trigger you bought first, you can toss it in a drawer and go buy another brand. I sure wish I could just drop in a Timney trigger like that.

4) The use of telescopic sights violates the purity of archery as a means of hunting.

I agree. Personally I have long felt that the true purists, those who hunt with primitive bows should have a special bow season above and beyond that enjoyed by compound bows and crossbows. Now that I have ticked off a whole class of people, let me lay this on you. Modern bow sights are actually better than the telescopic sights on crossbows (actually bows can now be outfitted with any sight you want including laser sights.) How could this be so? The modern box site for a bow usually has a series of pins that are individually adjustable for both elevation and windage. With a scope though, there are usually a series of crosshairs with windage marks. The real burn is that you cannot individually adjust the various crosshairs. Usually this works, but often you find that your 35 or 45 yard reticules shoot a little high or low. Given the choice I would prefer a box site and forgo the magnification.

One of the benefits of optical sights is that your average group size is much smaller. So much smaller, in fact, that Robin Hood shots like this are not uncommon at ranges under 25 yards. The author has had to re-fletch a number of arrows after having them trimmed by passing broadheads.

5) Crossbow hunters shoot like they have a rifle and negligently injure their prey rather than the clean-kill seen by conventional archers

This is another one of those user-related issues. The real culprit here (if this is actually a regularly occurring issue) is the hunter. Your point of aim should be the same regardless of whether you hunt with a bow, a rifle, or even a pistol. To me, people who hunt without developing the necessary skills to be proficient are no different than slobs who shoot from the back of their truck.

6) Crossbows have far greater range that a bow. If we allow them to be used during archery season, the game would be harvested at dangerous levels.

There was a very brief period of time that I actually began to believe this (for lack of my own research.)

So there I was acting all proud on the range thinking that my crossbow was significantly more powerful than any bow on the range (I'd seen the movie The Flying Geese a few times) when the guy next to me began shooting a 25 yard group no bigger than a quarter. I asked him if he had any trouble with splitting his own arrows with a group like that.

"No, I shoot the clock." he replied.

"Shoot the what?" A term I had not yet heard of.

"Shoot the clock, my first arrow is at twelve o'clock, the second arrow at three o'clock, and so on." He pointed out matter of factly.

"That's not a clock, that's a wrist watch buddy." I commented.

So I switched to the 35 yard target and continued shooting. Before long, he was shooting a smaller 45 yard group than my 25 yard group. Finally, he switched to the 80 yard target and his group opened up a little (very little at that!) As I stood marveling at what was the archery equivalent of a one-hole group, he turned to me and said "And that's my slow bow."

As it turned out I was shooting beside a sponsored shooter who made his living with a bow. He found my Barnett RC-150 crossbow interesting and even commented that they had carried an almost identical crossbow at Air America back in the 60's. It was at that point that he explained to me in a most grandfatherly way that even the best crossbow on the market would shoot accurately out to about 80 yards (in the hands of a pro) but that for hunting purposes my maximum effective range was more like 45 yards. What surprised me was that he admitted that despite his skill with the bow, he himself would rarely take a shot beyond the 45 yard mark because too much energy was bled off the arrow past that point.

Click here to shop for Archery supplies at Sportsmansguide.com! Given the choice between optical sights and current box and pin sights, the author would prefer the versatility of the latter type due to the ability to adjust individual range markers (pins). This example is the Tru Glo Rite 3 Pin Fiber Optic Advantage Camoflage Sight. $17.99. Click on photo for further details.

For those of you who watched The Wild Geese and came away believing that a 200 yard head-shot (in the dark, no less) was within the capabilities of your average, off-the-shelf crossbow. However, a more accurate depiction of the crossbow in a wartime application can be seen in the movie Green Berets. There you will see sentries being dispatched at 10 to 15 yards. The only archery devices that get 200 yards are pneumatically powered. Don't believe that Hollywood BS.

I would love to tell you that the crossbow really is a magical device, but the fact is that most crossbows use the same limbs as bows offered by the same manufacturer. Granted, there have been crossbows throughout history that were of staggering power and range (most notable was a crew serviced, magazine fed behemoth that fired 1 lb quills up to a mile), but modern commercial grade crossbows are really little different from their bow cousins. As a hunter you should be more concerned with game laws in your state and how they apply to these devices. Most states either do not allow crossbows for hunting or severely limit their use/season. In Arizona crossbows are only allowed during general rifle season, HAM hunts (handgun/archery/muzzleloader), and black powder season. Note that I did not mention archery season because they are prohibited for those hunts unless a physical disability exists. APC

[seapower]

Funny thing is, the guy that turned me on to crossbow's is a 100% recurve man. He has shot International Compititions (was the best in the world with a compound, at one time) with bow's and rifles. He still uses his recurve, but thought that I would like his compound. He was right! I also agree, with the article. The guy's that yak about crossbow hunting, just need to take a look at what they are holding in their own hand's. I'd be willing to bet it' not stick's and some string! Frank

[Agitated88]

Crossbow's are now legal out here, and I've heard the same comments made by the "purist." Some of these same "purist" are the same guys using state of the art "black powder" rifles taking deer at 200+ yards. Seems a bit condescending to me, since times have changed, I know VERY few guys (if any) using a flint lock, open panned Davey Crocket specials during black powder season. Yet, no one is questioning their use of the new state of the art black powder rifles that are at times as accurate or more accurate than some common rifles. Without getting into a huge debate, here’s my suggestion…incorporate crossbow with the black powder season, keep your “traditional” archery season as is, just add the crossbows to the black powder season. Seriously, every state has a magic number of deer they want taken, should it really matter the method?

[Bird Dog]

I have one but haven't used it in a few years. I've always preferred a bow. After my shoulder surgery, a crossbow was my only option. I have nothing against them.

[weekender]

I had to go to a crossbow this past season due to a rotator cuff/labrum tear. I have been bow hunting 36 yrs. and the crossbow was a hard sell. I did a substantial amount of research on crossbows and bought a Barnett REV AVI. It's mid priced weapon with silghtly above average speed if you beleive what they advertize. So far I am satisfied with the bow other than the trigger pull which is both too heavy at 3.5 lbs. and way too much travel for my taste. I opted to only shoot one deer this year with it and was very pleased with the performance in a hunting situation. I have a much harder time getting excited about going with the crossbow but when you put the crossbow hunting up against sitting on the couch, the crossbow wins everytime.

[mike243]

here in Tn they made them legal for all about 5-6 years ago.i had stopped bow hunting due to a back problem & had to quit squirrel hunting public property because of ruining bow hunters hunts on public propertys.i picked up a barnett revolution the first season & hunt with it every year.i have taken 5-6 doe's so far & struck out 2 seasons.i do a lot of scouting during bow season so this let me get back out there without my 22 squirrel hunting/scouting.a lot of guys shot vertical bows with fancy sights & triggers then tell me a xbow is not true archery equipment .both have a very long history & each year states are educated & open the doors to others like myself that have had a injury & didnt want to be pointed out as a special who got to cheat with a xbow.thats correct,i would have never went to a doctor & got a letter signed saying i couldnt use a vertical bow but i would be able to hunt using a xbow.i set out 5-6 years after trying to stay in the woods small game hunting but like i said bow hunters hate to hear 22's going off all over the woods .

[reelaxin]

I picked up a 10 Point crossbow this season and would highly recommend them. Mine has the crank option on the side of the stock for cocking it, I have been having a lot of trouble with my right elbow / wrist the last few years and this thing put me back in the bow hunting game again. The crank thing also allows for a safe recock / second shot from a tree stand
Deadly accurate out to 40 yards – I let the air out of a couple slicks this year, both complete pass thru shots with Rage 2 blades. Neither went more than 30 yards before dropping.

[weekender]

I had to go to a crossbow this past season due to a rotator cuff/labrum tear. I have been bow hunting 36 yrs. and the crossbow was a hard sell. I did a substantial amount of research on crossbows and bought a Barnett REV AVI. It's mid priced weapon with silghtly above average speed if you beleive what they advertize. So far I am satisfied with the bow other than the trigger pull which is both too heavy at 3.5 lbs. and way too much travel for my taste. I opted to only shoot one deer this year with it and was very pleased with the performance in a hunting situation. I have a much harder time getting excited about going with the crossbow but when you put the crossbow hunting up against sitting on the couch, the crossbow wins everytime.

I finally got around to digging out my crony and shooting the crossbow over it. I was pleasantly surprised with my crossbow averaged 343 fps. That's getting it out there pretty fast.